2021 Acura TLX
#616
The TLX being designed/built and sold in the US does not suddenly make it a Ford/Chevy/Dodge American car. The TLX and its components still has input, influence from Honda of Japan, same with the NSX. Honda models along with Toyota, Mazda, Nissan models for decades have been built in the US for the US market, it does not make them full American cars though, they are still considered Japanese cars from Japanese companies.
You are again exaggerating in your wording to attack the Type S like you have done since the beginning with your totally wrong 70K predicted price, being a "JDM treasure" was never said, you tried to say the TLX is not particularly sporty which is wrong and just about every reviewer has said the opposite of what you said about not being "particularly sporty" from the way it drives, handles, noises it makes, accelerates, looks, etc.
#617
Ford/Chevy/Toyota/Mazda/Nissan are sold internationally, Acura is not. And the TLX itself isn't sold anywhere else in the world but North America. Nobody cares what you consider to be Japanese, the matter of fact is that the TLX and Acura as a whole is an American brand. Tata also has a say in the design and engineering of Jaguar- doesn't make them Indian cars.
lol dude, you are the biggest TLX and Acura apologist in the entire thread. Every negative with this car, including its pathetic lack of interior space despite being bigger than a 5 Series, overweight 4300 pound mass with no benefits, slow acceleration, questionable Acura reliability, missing features from the Advance trim, limited production, and dealer markups, you brush aside with some kind of half-hearted excuse. None of these are subjective qualities like the Acura beak, they are all objective negatives.
lol dude, you are the biggest TLX and Acura apologist in the entire thread. Every negative with this car, including its pathetic lack of interior space despite being bigger than a 5 Series, overweight 4300 pound mass with no benefits, slow acceleration, questionable Acura reliability, missing features from the Advance trim, limited production, and dealer markups, you brush aside with some kind of half-hearted excuse. None of these are subjective qualities like the Acura beak, they are all objective negatives.
You are the biggest Acura/Type S hater, you have been hostile to the idea of this car from the beginning, wrong in your predictions from a price of 70K, then you said 60K, and now you try to say the car is not sporty, a failure before you have even seen one or tested one when none of the reviews reflect that. I am not a apologist for any brand, I call out what I don't like whether it is from the brand/car I own/have owned or don't. I don't care for the base TLX, I hate the fact it lost its NA V6 for just a avg 4 cyl and I don't like any of the wheels on the new TLX nor would I ever consider getting one. The Type S is a different story, it has a nice V6 with plenty of power/performance(much quicker then my GS350, both wheels on the Type S look great along with the other add ons and it is on my list of future cars I would consider. Again you will just rattle off all the negatives because you were never going to like the car in the first place, you had something against it and Acura from the get go which sounds personal just like Mazda and other brands while excusing or ignoring when other cars/brands have the same issues. I am not the one spreading false information and making ridiculous statements predictions like the Type S will cost 70K or over 60K, 0-60 under 5 sec is slow, and isn't sporty and should be totally dismissed especially when I haven't even seen or driven the car.
Last edited by UDel; 07-14-21 at 11:16 AM.
#618
#619
Acura was/is sold in Mexico, Canada, Russia, China, Kuwait, Ukraine, and was going to be launched in Japan until the financial crisis hit. Nobody cares that for some reason you consider a Japanese brand from a Japanese company a American brand. Not sure why you keep bringing up Tata and comparing it to Acura, Tata bought out Jaguar well after Jaguar was a established British brand. Acura is a luxury/performance brand/offshoot of Honda, a Japanese car company, the situations are nothing alike.
You are the biggest Acura/Type S hater, you have been hostile to the idea of this car from the beginning, wrong in your predictions from a price of 70K, then you said 60K, and now you try to say the car is not sporty, a failure before you have even seen one or tested one when none of the reviews reflect that. I am not a apologist for any brand, I call out what I don't like whether it is from the brand/car I own/have owned or don't. I don't care for the base TLX, I hate the fact it lost its NA V6 for just a avg 4 cyl and I don't like any of the wheels on the new TLX nor would I ever consider getting one. The Type S is a different story, it has a nice V6 with plenty of power/performance(much quicker then my GS350, both wheels on the Type S look great along with the other add ons and it is on my list of future cars I would consider. Again you will just rattle off all the negatives because you were never going to like the car in the first place, you had something against it and Acura from the get go which sounds personal just like Mazda and other brands while excusing or ignoring when other cars/brands have the same issues. I am not the one spreading false information and making ridiculous statements predictions like the Type S will cost 70K or over 60K, 0-60 under 5 sec is slow, and isn't sporty and should be totally dismissed especially when I haven't even seen or driven the car.
You are the biggest Acura/Type S hater, you have been hostile to the idea of this car from the beginning, wrong in your predictions from a price of 70K, then you said 60K, and now you try to say the car is not sporty, a failure before you have even seen one or tested one when none of the reviews reflect that. I am not a apologist for any brand, I call out what I don't like whether it is from the brand/car I own/have owned or don't. I don't care for the base TLX, I hate the fact it lost its NA V6 for just a avg 4 cyl and I don't like any of the wheels on the new TLX nor would I ever consider getting one. The Type S is a different story, it has a nice V6 with plenty of power/performance(much quicker then my GS350, both wheels on the Type S look great along with the other add ons and it is on my list of future cars I would consider. Again you will just rattle off all the negatives because you were never going to like the car in the first place, you had something against it and Acura from the get go which sounds personal just like Mazda and other brands while excusing or ignoring when other cars/brands have the same issues. I am not the one spreading false information and making ridiculous statements predictions like the Type S will cost 70K or over 60K, 0-60 under 5 sec is slow, and isn't sporty and should be totally dismissed especially when I haven't even seen or driven the car.
Everything I say has been echoed by the general press and even hardcore Acura loyalists on sites like Acurazine. The TLX is a disappointment through and through- the fact that you have to compare it to a dead vehicle like the Lexus GS (which by the way, would smoke it in F form just like the upcoming IS500) really doesn't do it any favors. We've had this same song and dance before, and you will defend this mediocre vehicle until the end of time even though more information comes out each day that further shows what an utter disappointment it is. And please, don't even bother to use the "You haven't driven it so your opinion doesn't count" nonsense- have YOU even driven it? If you've even been to a dealership, the first thing you would see on the Type S are the ADM's, just like what everyone on Acurazine saw.
EDIT: By the way, you know who else called Acura an "American brand"? Honda's own global R&D chiefs, speaking on behalf of Honda Japan. You going to claim that they're wrong too?
Is Acura too American to compete globally?
ASAHIKAWA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co.'s outgoing global r&d chief is blunt about Acura's challenge: It aims to be a global brand, but its U.S. engineers have little experience designing global vehicles."Acura is an American brand," Yoshiharu Yamamoto said during a drive event at Honda Motor Co.'s nearby proving ground in northern Japan, just days before his retirement was announced by the company as part of a top management overhaul that included the ousting of CEO Takanobu Ito.
Koichi Fukuo, the company’s newly appointed quality czar charged with fixing the problems, will be appointed new president of Honda R&D, the company said today.
But during his recent interview, Yamamoto said if Acura doesn't evolve into a global brand, the marque's business model is going to "get tough."
The problem: American engineers have tunnel vision for the gigantic U.S. market, while Japanese engineers for years have been designing cars with an eye to world markets.
"America r&d looks at domestic America very well, but it seems it is still a bit difficult to make optimal models while looking at China, India and the rest of the world," Yamamoto said.
"The Japanese market is small, and our carmaking has always had to think about overseas as the main markets," he added. "The American business is huge, and they look almost only at America."
That may be a hurdle for Acura as executives in Japan and the U.S. grapple with how to establish it as a global premium brand.
Most of Acura's lineup is engineered and manufactured in North America, but it was not always that way.
The brand made waves when it was launched in 1986 as the first Japanese luxury marque. When Acura debuted, all its vehicles were assembled in Japan. Today, only the flagship RLX is built there.
Only one Acura model is even sold in Japan: the RLX, badged as the Honda Legend. The U.S.-made NSX sports car eventually will be sold in Japan -- also with a Honda badge.
"Though it started with Japanese technologies, after twenty and some years, now we consider it born in America," said Fukuo, who became global quality czar on Nov. 1 before his promotion today.
Acura's 2014 global sales totaled 195,000 vehicles, down from a record 232,000 in 2005. North America accounted for 97 percent of the 2014 volume, with China pitching in 4,464 vehicles and another 1,173 coming from Russia, Turkey and Ukraine.
Ironically, Acura has even less global reach than American-born premium brands such as Cadillac.
Cadillac sales outside the U.S. and Canada in 2014 totaled 83,409.
"Acura needs to follow Cadillac's strategy of introducing a performance vehicle that is considered revolutionary, but offer it at a price that is consistent with consumer perceptions of the Acura brand," said Eric Lyman, TrueCar's vice president of industry insights.
Kelley Blue Book data show Acura buyers cross-shop Toyota, Honda, Ford, Nissan and Mazda more than any premium brands, underscoring the gap between Acura and its intended rivals.
Acura aims to set up a channel this year targeting rich markets in the Middle East.
The feeling in Japan, though, is that Acura needs better traction in its adopted home market to have any real shot overseas. "Unless we establish the brand properly" in America, Yamamoto said, "we think there will be no global deployment."
Last edited by Motorola; 07-14-21 at 12:14 PM.
#620
NSX motor is totally different going in a totally different car/price range, it is essentially a race car motor for a street car and costs a fortune to make(over $60K). It is very conservatively tuned considering its internals, design and potential. We would all like a TLX with 425hp though many buyers may not like it when they see what kind of fuel economy its getting or if it destroys the SHawd system sooner then they expected after abusing it. I am sure there will be a tune for the Type S coming to put it in the 400hp range, the NSX already has one for not a lot of money giving it about 100hp more and seems to be reliable so far.
#621
#623
#624
I'm more interested now in that engine being in the next MDX Type S. The MDX has gotten pricey though.
#625
You do know Acura's headquarters are in Torrence, California, and its CEO (Jon Ikeda) is an American, right? Even the person before him was American. You can list the various countries in which the brand made its appearance (over half of which it isn't even sold in anymore, nor has it ever been sold in Japan), but the matter of fact is that Acura is completely an American company. Moreover, the car in question, the TLX- has yet to be sold anywhere but North America. Tell me, in what way is the TLX a Japanese car, when literally nothing from it comes from Japan, not even its badge?
Everything I say has been echoed by the general press and even hardcore Acura loyalists on sites like Acurazine. The TLX is a disappointment through and through- the fact that you have to compare it to a dead vehicle like the Lexus GS (which by the way, would smoke it in F form just like the upcoming IS500) really doesn't do it any favors. We've had this same song and dance before, and you will defend this mediocre vehicle until the end of time even though more information comes out each day that further shows what an utter disappointment it is. And please, don't even bother to use the "You haven't driven it so your opinion doesn't count" nonsense- have YOU even driven it? If you've even been to a dealership, the first thing you would see on the Type S are the ADM's, just like what everyone on Acurazine saw.
EDIT: By the way, you know who else called Acura an "American brand"? Honda's own global R&D chiefs, speaking on behalf of Honda Japan. You going to claim that they're wrong too?
Everything I say has been echoed by the general press and even hardcore Acura loyalists on sites like Acurazine. The TLX is a disappointment through and through- the fact that you have to compare it to a dead vehicle like the Lexus GS (which by the way, would smoke it in F form just like the upcoming IS500) really doesn't do it any favors. We've had this same song and dance before, and you will defend this mediocre vehicle until the end of time even though more information comes out each day that further shows what an utter disappointment it is. And please, don't even bother to use the "You haven't driven it so your opinion doesn't count" nonsense- have YOU even driven it? If you've even been to a dealership, the first thing you would see on the Type S are the ADM's, just like what everyone on Acurazine saw.
EDIT: By the way, you know who else called Acura an "American brand"? Honda's own global R&D chiefs, speaking on behalf of Honda Japan. You going to claim that they're wrong too?
You said the car would be priced at 70K, then over 60K, when it ended up being priced in the low 50's.
Then you say it is not sporty which could not be further from the truth based on the reviews and specs.
Then you say Acura is just a American brand which is not true either. Acura is a luxury/performance offshoot brand from Honda, Honda is most certainly a Japanese brand just like Lexus and Infiniti's relation to Toyota and Nissan. You said Acura's are only sold in the US, again not true, they are/were sold in several foreign markets. The US and other markets got several Acura's fully designed/made in Japan like the Legend, Integra, Vigor, NSX, RL, RLX, TSX's. The SHawd system in Acura's/Type S debuted in the Japanese made Legend/RL among other components. Just because a company is making/designing cars in other countries does not suddenly make the established brand/car from that country, nobody thinks a Acura or TLX is a American car and the same as a Caddy or Lincoln, it is nice that many Japanese/European cars are built in the US giving US workers decent paying jobs. The US is by far Acura's biggest market, same with Lexus and Infiniti, same with the Accord and Camry, it is no real surprise Acura would have its headquarters in its biggest most important market, I would not suddenly call Lexus American if they moved their headquarters to the US and cut their very small foreign sales more.
I am going by the reviewers and specs so far where most reviews like it and are impressed with it, people who actually sat in and drove the car, not by some of posters on Acurazine who have never seen or driven the car yet and mainly care about a 0-60 number. They probably wanted a 400hp car like me but it is not a failure because it does not have 400hp. I am not even gushing over it or heaping praise on it, I just think it is a nice package and it ticks enough boxes for me to consider one in the future, I don't really care too much it is a couple tenths slower then competitors so far, it is a little disappointing, just like I did not care much about that when I bought my GS350 though I wish it had more power. I hope a GS-F priced around 90K is quicker then a Type S priced around 50K, that should be a given and not a realistic comparison at all, they are in two very different categories. Should a GS-F be totally discounted and worthless because it gets creamed by M5's, AMG's, Audi RS models in the power/acceleration department? If the Type S is so bad, there shouldn't be many people paying big ADM's and not for long, if it is a nice package then they will get enough sales at first to keep doing it but will have to eventually lower the markup once sales die down if they want to move a decent amount.
#626
Why keep spreading false information just to try to trash the car/brand?
You said the car would be priced at 70K, then over 60K, when it ended up being priced in the low 50's.
Then you say it is not sporty which could not be further from the truth based on the reviews and specs.
Then you say Acura is just a American brand which is not true either. Acura is a luxury/performance offshoot brand from Honda, Honda is most certainly a Japanese brand just like Lexus and Infiniti's relation to Toyota and Nissan. You said Acura's are only sold in the US, again not true, they are/were sold in several foreign markets. The US and other markets got several Acura's fully designed/made in Japan like the Legend, Integra, Vigor, NSX, RL, RLX, TSX's. The SHawd system in Acura's/Type S debuted in the Japanese made Legend/RL among other components. Just because a company is making/designing cars in other countries does not suddenly make the established brand/car from that country, nobody thinks a Acura or TLX is a American car and the same as a Caddy or Lincoln, it is nice that many Japanese/European cars are built in the US giving US workers decent paying jobs. The US is by far Acura's biggest market, same with Lexus and Infiniti, same with the Accord and Camry, it is no real surprise Acura would have its headquarters in its biggest most important market, I would not suddenly call Lexus American if they moved their headquarters to the US and cut their very small foreign sales more.
I am going by the reviewers and specs so far where most reviews like it and are impressed with it, people who actually sat in and drove the car, not by some of posters on Acurazine who have never seen or driven the car yet and mainly care about a 0-60 number. They probably wanted a 400hp car like me but it is not a failure because it does not have 400hp. I am not even gushing over it or heaping praise on it, I just think it is a nice package and it ticks enough boxes for me to consider one in the future, I don't really care too much it is a couple tenths slower then competitors so far, it is a little disappointing, just like I did not care much about that when I bought my GS350 though I wish it had more power. I hope a GS-F priced around 90K is quicker then a Type S priced around 50K, that should be a given and not a realistic comparison at all, they are in two very different categories. Should a GS-F be totally discounted and worthless because it gets creamed by M5's, AMG's, Audi RS models in the power/acceleration department? If the Type S is so bad, there shouldn't be many people paying big ADM's and not for long, if it is a nice package then they will get enough sales at first to keep doing it but will have to eventually lower the markup once sales die down if they want to move a decent amount.
You said the car would be priced at 70K, then over 60K, when it ended up being priced in the low 50's.
Then you say it is not sporty which could not be further from the truth based on the reviews and specs.
Then you say Acura is just a American brand which is not true either. Acura is a luxury/performance offshoot brand from Honda, Honda is most certainly a Japanese brand just like Lexus and Infiniti's relation to Toyota and Nissan. You said Acura's are only sold in the US, again not true, they are/were sold in several foreign markets. The US and other markets got several Acura's fully designed/made in Japan like the Legend, Integra, Vigor, NSX, RL, RLX, TSX's. The SHawd system in Acura's/Type S debuted in the Japanese made Legend/RL among other components. Just because a company is making/designing cars in other countries does not suddenly make the established brand/car from that country, nobody thinks a Acura or TLX is a American car and the same as a Caddy or Lincoln, it is nice that many Japanese/European cars are built in the US giving US workers decent paying jobs. The US is by far Acura's biggest market, same with Lexus and Infiniti, same with the Accord and Camry, it is no real surprise Acura would have its headquarters in its biggest most important market, I would not suddenly call Lexus American if they moved their headquarters to the US and cut their very small foreign sales more.
I am going by the reviewers and specs so far where most reviews like it and are impressed with it, people who actually sat in and drove the car, not by some of posters on Acurazine who have never seen or driven the car yet and mainly care about a 0-60 number. They probably wanted a 400hp car like me but it is not a failure because it does not have 400hp. I am not even gushing over it or heaping praise on it, I just think it is a nice package and it ticks enough boxes for me to consider one in the future, I don't really care too much it is a couple tenths slower then competitors so far, it is a little disappointing, just like I did not care much about that when I bought my GS350 though I wish it had more power. I hope a GS-F priced around 90K is quicker then a Type S priced around 50K, that should be a given and not a realistic comparison at all, they are in two very different categories. Should a GS-F be totally discounted and worthless because it gets creamed by M5's, AMG's, Audi RS models in the power/acceleration department? If the Type S is so bad, there shouldn't be many people paying big ADM's and not for long, if it is a nice package then they will get enough sales at first to keep doing it but will have to eventually lower the markup once sales die down if they want to move a decent amount.
And what "false information"? You think you know better than the people working at Honda Japan themselves when they call Acura an "American company" or those who actually drive and own Acuras on Acurazine? Your personal experiences don't amount to anything anywhere close to fact, nor your half-hearted cherrypicked examples.
By the way, the GS-F was anything but slammed in reviews, people knew it was slow compared to M and RS vehicles, but praised it for it having a naturally aspirated V8, something the competition didn't offer. What does the Type S have to offer over the competition?
Last edited by Motorola; 07-15-21 at 11:22 AM.
#627
i'm sure the TLX Type S is nice, but there's no one part of the car that stands out amongst competitors. It's still front wheel based, it's still under powered (relative speaking) even with the turbo V6, brand recognition for Acura is at all time low. TLX model name is meh. Finally, the high pricing just kills it at the end, for $60k+ there are a ton of better options out there.
#628
Motorola and UDel, i'm leaving your recent posts because you each took a bunch of time to write them. But i ask you to stop responding to one another's posts in this thread unless you can write posts without the word "you" in them.
#630
My former next door neighbor was a 90 year old WWII vet and he used to kid me about driving "foreign" cars. During our discussions on the subject he would always say "where do the profits ultimately go?". In the case of Acura it's Honda Motor Company Ltd. Minato Japan.