Exactly. Its ridiculous.

 

So lets get back to how uncompetitive the IS will be whenever they decide to unveil the same old vehicle with lipstick on it.

 

Are you suggesting BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are more reliable or even as reliable? If so, please point to some evidence. In what survey or publication have they beat Lexus? But I know people don't won't to talk about that, please get back to bashing a car that hasn't been unveiled yet LOL!!!!

 

Yep, it’s a shame. Looks like same powertrains, etc.

No, I’m not. I’m saying that it is absolutely possible to have a nice reliable ownership experience experience with a car that is not a Toyota, in fact it’s more than possible, it’s likely.

As for the IS, it was already unveiled...in 2013. That’s the problem.

 

So you said you don't like going to the dealer for repairs, you can't have it both ways. A car that is less reliable will have more repairs. Sure there are exceptions, but what does the data say. Or just ignore it, LOL.

There are many articles about how more reliable vehicles get the longer they are produced. Many people avoid a 1st or 2nd year new model. What specifically will be wrong with the chassis they will be using or the engines? If they add more power, technology, and new styling, what is it missing? Specifics.

 

I don't like it, but its not like the only vehicle I can buy or lease where I don't have to go to the vehicle for repairs is a Toyota or Lexus. Most cars I could choose are going to provide me with a largely repair free experience.

Come on, you understand. Why doesn't every carmaker just keep each model going forever then? New platforms have better stiffness, better space allocation, new engines have more power and more efficiency. A warmed over twice refreshed IS with those old engines doesn't stand a chance competing with its all new competitors.

 

You are calling it inferior and it hasn't debuted yet! You are guessing at metrics that not everyone uses to judge a car. You haven't seen the inside. How do you know what the space allocation will be. The engines haven't been officially announced yet. How do you know it won't be competitive in power and less efficient? You don't. IT HAS NOT DEBUTED YET. I could say the new M3, M4 won't be competitive in reliability, comfort, steering feel compared to the new IS. Guess what, I don't know. It has not debuted yet either. I could guess and say the front end will be ugly! LOL.

Are you going to lease a vehicle for 2 to 3 years? Then you will never know how reliable a vehicle is past that point.

 

Its going to be the same basic car, the space allocation is going to be the same. The new M3 and M4 are based on the all new 3 Series platform. I think MotorTrend probably has a good source on the engines or they wouldn't have reported them.

My Pacifica is a lease and I know its unreliable. Plenty of people keep cars that aren't Toyotas 10+ years and survive. Toyota does not make the only reliable car on the road.

The bottom line is, Lexus is comfortable continuing to put out old product on old platforms with old powertrains, and its hurting their sales and its hurting their standing as a luxury carmaker. I feel very confident predicting this refresh of the current IS won't be a factor in the segment at all.

 

Obviously you make great decisions on leasing new vehicles. And you don't care what research shows. I'll just go by what you say since you have a lot of credibility purchasing German vehicles...and performance vehicles. Look, I may even purchase another German car, like I said, I really like the E 63 S AMG Wagon, but I wouldn't go into it blindly. I'll know I am going to lose my rear on depreciation and it would take more maintenance etc. That extra performance will have costs. Large displacement turbo engines and awd take more maintenance on many vehicles, even potentially Lexus. They put more stress and heat on the engine. That why I like the new C8, naturally aspirated rwd. It's why I chose the GS F and LC. It's why I would look forward to a IS 500 if that happens.

 

Who says I don’t care what research shows? I am just only so willing going forward to base my decisions simply on what is projected to be the most reliable. If I cared first and foremost about reliability I would choose a vehicle far less complex than what I have.

It all comes down to, reliability just isn’t enough to make people in these segments give up the substantial benefits other carmakers offer. The proof of that is in sales performance.

IS500 would be the 3.5TT.

Just tired of old models that lack the latest performance and tech from Lexus, I’m over it. If I have to put something else that delivers much more meat in the shop once a year, or twice a year. So be it.

In terms of the IS, there are great options outside the Germans too. There’s an all new Genesis G70, we have an all new Acura TLX coming. Cadillac has all new entrants.

 

Reliability obviously isn't your top priority based on your minivan. That's obvious.

Nobody would want a LC, 4C, NSX, Miata, 718, Nissan GT R, R8, TT, SL, Land Cruiser because they don't lead in sales by your theory. Maybe if they offered cheap leases like some other vehicles they would sell....since sales is the proof. Sometimes niche and performance vehicles get cancelled due to lack of sales. It doesn't mean they were not great. Performance cars are about the driving experience. Which of the competitors to the IS have you driven? Which performance cars have you driven? Are you in the market for the IS? Will you test drive it to confirm you theories? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but creditability matters.

 

Is the GS F, RC F, and LC lacking in performance for you? Are YOU capable of maximizing their performance on the street? Or do you only care what the stats and magazines say.

 

No, reliability isn’t the most important thing to me. Reliability was never the reason I chose any of my Lexus vehicles either.

When I say “performance” I’m not just talking about engine performance, I’m talking about overall vehicle performance, ride, feel, etc. mentioning the F Cars, they surely do lag behind their competitors when it comes to engine performance however. It’s considerable. Only car of those I would have interest in is the LC, the RC-F and GS-F don’t appeal to me at all. And the GS has been cancelled.

I would like to be able to buy a Lexus that isn’t an F Model with a V8. I would also like to buy a Lexus luxury sedan that leads in ride comfort, isolation and passenger comfort.

In the segments I am interested in, Lexus is far, far behind in the performance I am looking for. No V8 available, firmest loudest ride in the class. Smallest interior in the class. No RWD based crossovers to choose from which would be my second choice to a sedan.

I want to see Lexus invest in new product. Proper luxury product not vehicles derived from FWD Toyotas. That’s why this decision not to debut an all new IS bothers me so much.

 

All those cars are NOT leaders in performance not by a long shot.

Lexus to get on the map needs to introduce a 800hp engine that will out perform ///M and AMG - AND be way less expensive. That is the only way they can get any meaningful marketshare in Performance arena.

Nissan R35 GTR did this.
Dodge Hellcat also did this.
Those cars and their achievements carried those brands.

RCF, GSF, LC are fine cars but are not top in any performance category, have love it or hate it styling, and come from a brand that have limited enthusiasts. Hence sales are lackluster.

 

Uhhh, the IS isn't a FWD Toyota. So you aren't in the target market for the IS. Yet you are upset about it. Or are you just bitter Lexus took another direction on the LS. That seems to be the case. I'm afraid to tell you, but all V8's may not be around for much longer.

I can't read what RNM GS3 said. I have him on ignore. LOL! Probably saying something about German Power and beating his chest. Completely ignoring reliability, comfort, service, sound, linear power, and that there will always be a car faster. If that is all that matters, you need to be driving a Porsche. I have and did.