Yup, pretty lame. The Lexus car lineup looks like how it did in the 90's. Two sedans and a coupe. Hope this is outstanding, but I'm not holding my breath on any aspect of this refresh.

 

I thought we knew this was going to be a facelift a few months ago? I remember reading it somewhere, a good refresh the outside and the interior to keep the 3IS going for another couple of years.

EDIT: found it...Of course this is there prediction but in May MT had this: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lexu...w-future-cars/

 

I think the days of a small RWD sports sedan for Lexus are coming to a sunset. I think this is why it’s a heavy refresh and not a new design. BMW and MB are NOW moving into the FWD smaller sedans to go along with their small RWD sport sedans, Toyota knows they really can’t compete from a economies of scale with brand new designs. It will be interesting to know what types of engines they plan to offer. A new redesign does not align with their hybrid goals and long term plans

 

BMW and MB are heavily moving into FWD cars to compete with the bottom end. BMW 2 series / X1 / X2 are FWD and MB A class / CLA are also FWD. Lexus is getting attacked from all sides.

 

Toyota certainly can compete. They always have. That type of defeatist mentality though if true (looks like it may be true) will certainly be the end of Lexus as we know it.

 

Small RWD segment is a slowly fading segment.

 

Wasnt the purpose of the TNGA was to make it that Toyota and Lexus can compete from an economies of scale? From what I am seeing from Toyota, they are moving the Toyota brand upmarket a bit. Sort of like back to the 90's where you can get near Lexus quality at a Toyota price. That means they are going to push Lexus upmarket to truly compete with the Germans. Right now, Lexus is on a holding pattern while Toyota refreshes the actual bread and butter models in the next 2 yrs. I believe once the LF1 comes out, there will be a flood of new Lexus models, at higher prices and more upmarket.

 

They really do need to move upmarket because it feels like they are kinda stuck. One problem with moving upmarket though is that folks have always looked at Lexus as a cheaper alternative to brands like BMW, MB, Audi, Land Rover, etc. In my view, the prestige is what is missing and its hard to just make cars more expensive without justifying it with that prestige. Also, I personally find that Lexus owners are folks that care more about reliability, quality and cost to own over the nameplate. For instance, if they move the ES upmarket I don't think anyone (even a die hard Lexus fan) is going to pay $60K for an ES...but they gotta try something!

However, with the GS being gone, it does a lot of sense to simplify the sedan lineup and slowly make their offerings more upmarket. I'm looking forward to seeing the redesigned IS and imagine most design cues inspired by the UX and "swoopiness" of the current gen ES.

 

Since we're discussing the entire line-up, I'm very curious on other people's thoughts: I think the GS is being discontinued because it's tough to sell a GS for $75-80k (which is what I think would be the reasonably price bump). I think the issue is that Lexus certainly has the ABILITY to improve the current GS, but it's already a car that doesn't sell well (which I'm surprised about; I own one and love it), and if they were to improve it, they'd obviously have to increase the price, and it's tough when you're competing with the E class and the 5 series, which are both superior in ride quality and performance; the GS is a great mixture of both and has superior reliability, but still falls short. Thoughts?

 

But smaller RWD based quality crossovers are a growing segment...and Lexus hasn't entered into that segment at all. Its not just about sedans, its about the product that Lexus is releasing in general.

 

The small RWD luxury segment has grown by quite a bit if you include crossovers and Model 3/Y. Just because Lexus vacated the market doesn't mean its a bad market.

 

Yep, exactly.

 

And so is the X1 and X2 segment type models. I was only referring to sports sedans. I don't think there will ever be a small RWD Lexus crossover that coexists with a small RWD sports sedan from Lexus.

 

Have you bothered to check sales of the 3/4 series and C class in the last few months, very healthy.

 

Yes, Mercedes GLC was booming at 73k last year USA, with BMW X3 on 70k, even Audi Q5 on 2018 69k and 2019 67k - while Lexus NX peaked in 2018 with only 62k, and in 2019 is down to just 58k; the Germans are beginning to claw their way past Lexus again.

Premium designs with RWD-based platforms, or at least Audi's longitudingal engines in front of the front axle with the flywheel/clutch/gearbox transmission behind the front axle for nearer 50/50 weight distribution to maximize front end grip, and not to forget the more premium double wishbone front suspension to help keep the front tires near perpendicular to the road surface to also help maximize grip.

GA-K platform is not only transverse drivetrain in front of the front axle, but GA-K also uses cheap simple single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension.