A 205 hp 4-cylinder will be in the AWD Camry and Avalon (no mention of Lexus ES)
06-03-20, 01:01 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
I don't believe that I am.
Ask any crossover buyer if they would consider a minivan, you will get shocked responses and immediate declarations that they would not.
People have preferences for certain types of vehicles, and just because a feature they want may not be offered in that type of vehicle with a certain brand doesn't mean they will just jump to an entirely different sort of vehicle. I'm a nice soft big sedan buyer, if Lexus came out with a nice soft SUV, and they continue not to have a nice soft, big sedan that doesn't at all mean I will buy that SUV.
Bottom line is, Lexus just isn't offering true luxury products really anymore. They don't have a full lineup...don't offer the features or powertrains of their competitors. Its just getting worse too.
It makes zero sense to have an AWD Camry and Avalon and not an AWD ES.
Ask any crossover buyer if they would consider a minivan, you will get shocked responses and immediate declarations that they would not.
People have preferences for certain types of vehicles, and just because a feature they want may not be offered in that type of vehicle with a certain brand doesn't mean they will just jump to an entirely different sort of vehicle. I'm a nice soft big sedan buyer, if Lexus came out with a nice soft SUV, and they continue not to have a nice soft, big sedan that doesn't at all mean I will buy that SUV.
Bottom line is, Lexus just isn't offering true luxury products really anymore. They don't have a full lineup...don't offer the features or powertrains of their competitors. Its just getting worse too.
It makes zero sense to have an AWD Camry and Avalon and not an AWD ES.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-03-20 at 01:07 PM.
06-03-20, 01:12 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
I can't imagine that a 4 cylinder ES will sell in the US. For the rest of the world, I think every model Lexus offers has a downmarket motor. Even the mightly LX has a diesel engine some place somewhere. I was a little surprised that the Avalon is even coming with the 4 cylinder awd option. I would be the Lexus ES will get E-awd for their hybrid model for North America
06-03-20, 01:13 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
4 cylinder ES will absolutely sell in the US if it has enough power. 205 HP isn't going to cut it, but a turbo 4cyl ES with good power will absolutely sell. If they can sell 4 cyl 5 Series and E Classes they can sell 4 cyl ESs.
In any event..the ESh has always been a 4 cyl and nobody cares.
In any event..the ESh has always been a 4 cyl and nobody cares.
06-03-20, 03:39 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
06-03-20, 03:47 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
06-03-20, 03:54 PM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Did you know that the GS once had a 4 cylinder and it failed miserably? You didn’t did you?.....oh, ES is not a E class competitor...
06-03-20, 04:42 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Unfortunately, the 4-banger in the AWD Camry and Avalon isn't turbocharged, and so the power output is far from comparable to anything from Europe. Add in an AWD system and it's going to feel incredibly gutless. It may be fine for a daily commuter like the Camry, but has no place in something as refined as the ES.
06-03-20, 06:43 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
This idea that Lexus can’t do what other carmakers do is just ridiculous. This is the company that everybody said couldn’t build a luxury car at all and turned the whole industry on its ear. They can do anything they want.
Whether they have the will is another matter.
06-03-20, 06:56 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Exactly, it was a crappy engine. Lexus powertrains are woefully behind the competition.
This idea that Lexus can’t do what other carmakers do is just ridiculous. This is the company that everybody said couldn’t build a luxury car at all and turned the whole industry on its ear. They can do anything they want.
Whether they have the will is another matter.
This idea that Lexus can’t do what other carmakers do is just ridiculous. This is the company that everybody said couldn’t build a luxury car at all and turned the whole industry on its ear. They can do anything they want.
Whether they have the will is another matter.
06-03-20, 07:22 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
06-03-20, 07:36 PM
#26
That consumer doesnt want the RX.
We have had this discussion before. The strategy of "well if they want that they can just buy this totally different vehicle that offers that feature". Consumers that want an AWD sedan will just leave Lexus and buy something else if that consumer isn't served. Its the same argument about space in the Highlander, "well customers who want space just buy the Sienna". No, they don't. Crossover customers don't want minivans, they want crossovers. Those customers will move to a brand that offers them what they want.
The style of vehicle is very important. ES customers who want to stay with a sedan but want AWD aren't all of a sudden going to just buy an RX because they want AWD.
Why wouldn't Avalon customers who want AWD just buy a Highlander? Why would Toyota bother to offer AWD in that? The logic just makes no sense.
Lexus is a luxury car, part of buying a luxury car is having options.
We have had this discussion before. The strategy of "well if they want that they can just buy this totally different vehicle that offers that feature". Consumers that want an AWD sedan will just leave Lexus and buy something else if that consumer isn't served. Its the same argument about space in the Highlander, "well customers who want space just buy the Sienna". No, they don't. Crossover customers don't want minivans, they want crossovers. Those customers will move to a brand that offers them what they want.
The style of vehicle is very important. ES customers who want to stay with a sedan but want AWD aren't all of a sudden going to just buy an RX because they want AWD.
Why wouldn't Avalon customers who want AWD just buy a Highlander? Why would Toyota bother to offer AWD in that? The logic just makes no sense.
Lexus is a luxury car, part of buying a luxury car is having options.
4 cylinder ES will absolutely sell in the US if it has enough power. 205 HP isn't going to cut it, but a turbo 4cyl ES with good power will absolutely sell. If they can sell 4 cyl 5 Series and E Classes they can sell 4 cyl ESs.
In any event..the ESh has always been a 4 cyl and nobody cares.
In any event..the ESh has always been a 4 cyl and nobody cares.
There may be other reasons like 4GS was very firmly sprung relative to its top selling E Class and 5 Series peers.
Whatever the case, the entire 4GS range didn't sell that well relative to its peers.
Exactly, it was a crappy engine. Lexus powertrains are woefully behind the competition.
This idea that Lexus can’t do what other carmakers do is just ridiculous. This is the company that everybody said couldn’t build a luxury car at all and turned the whole industry on its ear. They can do anything they want.
Whether they have the will is another matter.
This idea that Lexus can’t do what other carmakers do is just ridiculous. This is the company that everybody said couldn’t build a luxury car at all and turned the whole industry on its ear. They can do anything they want.
Whether they have the will is another matter.
The 3 Series 2.0T has a much more prominent flat spot at low RPM's before the turbo spools up, yet 3 Series sells like hot cakes!
The actual reasons why consumers purchase certain models can be very complex.
The badge tends to come first. Then perhaps the styling etc etc. Many may not like IS's aggressive angular styling etc etc.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-03-20 at 07:39 PM.
06-03-20, 07:39 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
It is of my opinion that Toyota has by far the best naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines with their new dynamic force technology.
06-03-20, 09:09 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
06-04-20, 03:30 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
