A 205 hp 4-cylinder will be in the AWD Camry and Avalon (no mention of Lexus ES)
06-05-20, 02:52 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
What the heck does anyone need a 4 cylinder turbo in an ES for anyways? 301hp ES is good, so is the fuel economy.
From the GM family of V6s?
From the GM family of V6s?
06-05-20, 03:04 PM
#62
Lexus Champion
I agree.
Yeah I mean I'm not all the way serious (lol I'm sure people are gonna make fun of me), but me personally I would take a 3800 over any mainstream 4 cylinder turbo.
06-05-20, 03:07 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
06-05-20, 03:11 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
I would much rather have the NA 3.6 V6 to any 4cyl turbo.
06-05-20, 03:18 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by UDel
Who did that study/got that number? The govt? Govt. funded universities? Are there conflicting studies? I have a hard time believing so many died just because of "pollution" by cars. Most of Europe's/UK pollution issues in cities were from their politicians forcing dirty diesels on the population from very high gas taxes/prices, now they are forcing electrics but it still won't solve the problem and will likely make issues worse/create new ones. Do they have any plans for the diesel lorries/18 wheelers that are the worst pollution offenders along with ships/aircraft?
06-05-20, 03:50 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
I know you don’t agree with me but: I have no doubt Toyota could fit a V6 in the Avalon or ES. GM did it with their awd Lacrosse and so has Ford somewhere. Toyota is just not telling us. And for Toyota to not have designed their TNGA Avalon with the possibility to have awd in the future (to me) does not make sense. Nissan brought awd to their FWD cars. So did Ford. So did GM.
I also know you don’t agree with me on this one either: my opinion is that they went I4 so that they force the V6 awd buyer to go Highlander. From a packaging and profit position, it makes more sense for that customer to move to crossover because sedans are never coming back and satisfaction is gonna be higher for Toyota. Move em now to the crossover line. The higher end Highlanders have all new torque vectoring AWD, while give consumers a cheaper AWD V6 Avalon option when the profits is in the higher HL price points.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 06-05-20 at 04:03 PM.
06-06-20, 07:37 AM
#68
Toyota already had to react and Frankenstein the Avalon and Camry to bring AWD to market because it wasn't in the original roadmap for the model lines. Missed the market direction and then had to react.
06-06-20, 07:50 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Of course they can. They have been selling the 3.5L V6 in both the Avalon and ES for years.
When I myself said, last year, that GM and Ford were trying to do exactly that (force people out of sedans and into higher-profit crossovers) by shutting down the sedan plants, I was roundly criticized here on Car Chat. Yes, there are one or two exceptions (such as at Cadillac, which just introduced two new sedans)...but that is clearly the general trend, especially at Buick.
my opinion is that they went I4 so that they force the V6 awd buyer to go Highlander. From a packaging and profit position, it makes more sense for that customer to move to crossover because sedans are never coming back and satisfaction is gonna be higher for Toyota. Move em now to the crossover line.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-06-20 at 07:53 AM.
06-06-20, 08:19 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Why even develop AWD for the Camry or Avalon at all if the plan is to make people who want AWD go to the Highlander? That just doesn't make any sense.
And I'm not saying thats not Toyota's plan, I'm saying that plan doesn't make sense. Toyota is doing a lot of things right now that don't make sense and show they have a questionable grip on what certain buyer demographics will do.
And I'm not saying thats not Toyota's plan, I'm saying that plan doesn't make sense. Toyota is doing a lot of things right now that don't make sense and show they have a questionable grip on what certain buyer demographics will do.
06-06-20, 08:38 AM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
06-06-20, 08:45 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
I think they should be AWD, but if your assumption is right, that Toyota just wants consumers who want AWD to get a Highlander why bother? In fact, why not just cancel the Camry and by that logic all those buyers will just buy a Highlander?
The reason they wont do that is because all of those buyers wont just buy a Highlander, there are still many buyers who want a sedan, and many buyers who want an AWD sedan that if Toyota didn't offer that they would just buy whatever other manufacturer's vehicle offered that setup in a sedan.
06-06-20, 10:03 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
06-06-20, 10:19 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
That’s one segment. There are other segments that they are having a very hard time with.