Its a lot of segments, and segments they used to do quite well in. SUVs, luxury cars over $55k, luxury SUVs, minivan, trucks

They’ve failed to pivot with the industry in many key places

 

Worldwide that is not the case. Lexus sales are up 8% worldwide. US sales are flat from 2018-2019

 

Those sales are all lower end FWD transverse Toyota derived cars, that performance doesn’t negate anything I said about them struggling in the segments I mentioned. I’m a consumer in the US, and what I care about is what they offer I have interest in.

Ive been consistently a Toyota consumer since 1998. I have had at least one Toyota in my garage my entire adult life. I’m entering into a period where over the next 1-1.5 years I will replace both of my cars. For the first time there is no Toyota that I would even consider to replace either vehicle. There isn’t a Toyota I would even test drive.

The Pacifica will be replaced with another minivan, 3 row crossover or full sized SUV. I would consider the Sienna, but I don’t want a hybrid. The Highlander doesn’t offer the room inside its competitors do and that I want. The Sequoia is ancient.

The LS will be replaced with another flagship luxury car or luxury SUV. The LS is too small inside and too sport focused. Lexus has no higher end luxury SUVs except the ancient LX which falls too far behind its competitors to be considered.

And I as a consumer have not changed. I buy the same kind of stuff every time.

Youre not frustrated because the sort of vehicles you buy are well represented within their lineup and done fairly well (still behind competitors IMHO)

 

Actions speak louder than words....(good luck with whatever you choose to lease)

 

Maybe you should think about waiting for LQ? I'm sure that will be quite nice.

Sounds like it's coming out somewhat around the timeframe you mentioned in replacing cars.

 

I beg to differ. People shop by car, not by drivetrain. What you are saying is that customers are SO brand loyal, that they consider a completely different type of vehicle to get the drivetrain they want. This is just not the real world. People will switch brands to get a surround-view camera or captain's chairs. They aren't going to say "Oh, well. I guess I'll get a crossover instead of a sedan." Not happening.

 

Agreed. I have a BMW with a 2.0T with 240 HP (which by most accounts is underrated)--power is more than adequate. Current 3-Series 2.0Ts have almost 260 HP. 530 is a 2.0T. Volvo sell 2.0Ts across their lineup, T6's with over 300HP. If Lexus sells an ES with a turbo 4 with 260-280 HP (or more), plenty of people will buy it. But 205 HP will be a hard sell.

 

I say get a 2020 LX570 before they are gone. Last of the big V8s

 

Not really, Toyota line up in the US is very strong there is no evidence that they are lagging & the sales figure would corroborate that. It’s a different story when it comes to Lexus because the competitive set & expectations are different. What you are trying to say it there aren’t many vehicles in Toyota’s current line up which fit your specific needs / tastes which doesn’t mean that as a company they have lost touch.

 

Not sure what you're implying, if its that I would wind up getting another Lexus despite what I've said? There truly isn't anything that appeals to me. if I get another sedan it would be an S Class, of its an SUV it'll be a Range Rover or an X7. RR or X7 I would buy rather than lease for tax advantages because they are over 6,000 GVWR.

I don't have enough faith in Lexus that it will actually come out, when it will come out, or that it will have the attributes that I'm looking for.

No interest in the LX. And all Lexus' competitors still offer V8s so I have no reason to snap up one of the last ones.

 

It won't be a 2020, most likely a 2015. All things considered I think I prefer that one anyway other than the fact that I'm obsessed with the look of the 21" rims on the current ones.

But ohhh yeah. Then we will have 24 cylinders in our garage, all V8 vehicles.

 

Ha...that is a fun way to say it.

 

you keep changing the goalposts of your argument.

you said toyota is doing awd sedans to make people buy highlanders, which makes no sense. if anything, they'd add awd option to sedans to sell more of those sedans, especially in colder climates. unlike gm and ford, toyota hasn't largely abandoned sedans.

then you say many others have awd sedans. Not sure the relevance.

then you say they know their demographics and quote numbers... on that i agree, but that doesn't mean you're other theories are right. it's like saying some people like oysters because some other people like vanilla ice cream and they sell a lot of ice cream.

 

Always......

 

I think I said Toyota is omitting a V6/awd Avalon and ES so they can push people to HL and RX. But feel free to check my past posts...thanks for your input.