A 205 hp 4-cylinder will be in the AWD Camry and Avalon (no mention of Lexus ES)
06-06-20 | 01:03 PM
#92
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From: Southeastern PA
you keep changing the goalposts of your argument.
you said toyota is doing awd sedans to make people buy highlanders, which makes no sense. if anything, they'd add awd option to sedans to sell more of those sedans, especially in colder climates. unlike gm and ford, toyota hasn't largely abandoned sedans.
then you say many others have awd sedans. Not sure the relevance.
then you say they know their demographics and quote numbers... on that i agree, but that doesn't mean you're other theories are right. it's like saying some people like oysters because some other people like vanilla ice cream and they sell a lot of ice cream.
you said toyota is doing awd sedans to make people buy highlanders, which makes no sense. if anything, they'd add awd option to sedans to sell more of those sedans, especially in colder climates. unlike gm and ford, toyota hasn't largely abandoned sedans.
then you say many others have awd sedans. Not sure the relevance.
then you say they know their demographics and quote numbers... on that i agree, but that doesn't mean you're other theories are right. it's like saying some people like oysters because some other people like vanilla ice cream and they sell a lot of ice cream.
06-06-20 | 01:05 PM
#93
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From: ON/NY
An awd Camry option sort of makes sense in Canada as Nissan has gone only awd on their Altima and Mazda 3 offers awd so the Camry sort of fits right in there at the price points.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 06-06-20 at 01:08 PM.
06-06-20 | 01:08 PM
#94
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From: Maryland
I think the issue is Toyota is so confident they think they know what people want...they don't ask people.
One of the great things about adding AWD to a FWD vehicle is that it negates many of the inherent flaws of FWD. It helps to deal with torque steer and wheel hop, helps put power down to the ground better, helps handling feel tremendously. A good AWD system on the ES would help a lot towards it actually replacing some of what the GS meant to Lexus. Then there are the benefits in foul weather.
An AWD V6 ES would be a great addition to the lineup. The ES is better than its ever been and that would just put it over the top.
One of the great things about adding AWD to a FWD vehicle is that it negates many of the inherent flaws of FWD. It helps to deal with torque steer and wheel hop, helps put power down to the ground better, helps handling feel tremendously. A good AWD system on the ES would help a lot towards it actually replacing some of what the GS meant to Lexus. Then there are the benefits in foul weather.
An AWD V6 ES would be a great addition to the lineup. The ES is better than its ever been and that would just put it over the top.
06-06-20 | 01:21 PM
#95
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From: ON/NY
06-06-20 | 08:52 PM
#98
06-06-20 | 08:57 PM
#99
And speaking of knowing their market, the couple i'm staying with is 80+ and the lady is getting ready to sell her barely used 2014 camry and thinks she wants a RAV4 because she knows others who have them. Her one complaint is you can't get a power passenger seat on one. 
her sister bought a rav4 and of course got some crap trim level so it looks like it was bought in Walmart (or down here, CostCo!). She can get a hyundai tucson for less money, way more features, it's not going to break with the small mileage she puts on it, and imo it looks a thousand times better. But i bet she gets a rav4. 
her sister bought a rav4 and of course got some crap trim level so it looks like it was bought in Walmart (or down here, CostCo!). She can get a hyundai tucson for less money, way more features, it's not going to break with the small mileage she puts on it, and imo it looks a thousand times better. But i bet she gets a rav4. 
06-06-20 | 09:25 PM
#101
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Joined: Apr 2015
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From: NJ
And speaking of knowing their market, the couple i'm staying with is 80+ and the lady is getting ready to sell her barely used 2014 camry and thinks she wants a RAV4 because she knows others who have them. Her one complaint is you can't get a power passenger seat on one. her sister bought a rav4 and of course got some crap trim level so it looks like it was bought in Walmart (or down here, CostCo!). She can get a hyundai tucson for less money, way more features, it's not going to break with the small mileage she puts on it, and imo it looks a thousand times better. But i bet she gets a rav4.
her sister bought a rav4 and of course got some crap trim level so it looks like it was bought in Walmart (or down here, CostCo!). She can get a hyundai tucson for less money, way more features, it's not going to break with the small mileage she puts on it, and imo it looks a thousand times better. But i bet she gets a rav4.
06-07-20 | 07:17 AM
#102
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From: ON/NY
There is a whopping 7mpg combined fuel economy advantage in favor of the Rav4....and when its time to Toyota, you add 22 more HP over the Hyundai.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 06-07-20 at 07:21 AM.
06-07-20 | 07:28 AM
#103
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From: Maryland
Gas is cheap, and when you look at how much more the Rav 4 is than the Tuscon it takes many years to recoup that cost at the fuel pump. A base Rav 4 starts where the top trim Tuscon starts. The EPA estimates it costs $300 more a year to fuel the Tuscon when you figure there's a ~ $5 delta between the two similarly equipped you're talking about 16 years to make up that difference.
06-07-20 | 07:56 AM
#104
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From: ON/NY
And thats an older Avalon not a new one
Gas is cheap, and when you look at how much more the Rav 4 is than the Tuscon it takes many years to recoup that cost at the fuel pump. A base Rav 4 starts where the top trim Tuscon starts. The EPA estimates it costs $300 more a year to fuel the Tuscon when you figure there's a ~ $5 delta between the two similarly equipped you're talking about 16 years to make up that difference.
Gas is cheap, and when you look at how much more the Rav 4 is than the Tuscon it takes many years to recoup that cost at the fuel pump. A base Rav 4 starts where the top trim Tuscon starts. The EPA estimates it costs $300 more a year to fuel the Tuscon when you figure there's a ~ $5 delta between the two similarly equipped you're talking about 16 years to make up that difference.
But there is no doubt a RAV4 in city has better MPG efficiency than the Tucson on the hwy
The RAV4 is very hard to beat in the segment for the Hyundai brand.
06-07-20 | 08:03 AM
#105
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From: Maryland
Fuel economy is just one part of the overall equation. Maybe 1/5 Part of the decision. So is powertrain, hp and performance also favours the RAV. No idea if Toyota is more competitive with safety features or not. Etc etc. So is size. I think then Hyundai is slightly larger. Resale, warranty, and reliability all factor in.
But there is no doubt a RAV4 in city has better MPG efficiency than the Tucson on the hwy
The RAV4 is very hard to beat in the segment for the Hyundai brand.
Lets put it this way, the Rav 4 is so expensive you could move a class up with Hyundai and get a Santa Fe or a Sorrento. Hell, you could get a Palisade.
Only value proposition for the Rav 4 is "its a Toyota" A loaded one is over $40,000 which is just absurd for an economy scale crossover.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-07-20 at 08:08 AM.