Toys4RJill

I don’t think any sedan goes up in the sales charts mid cycle for a long time. And there is a pandemic going on too.

I think the cost of the top end Mazda 3 is a lot of money. Not for a Mazda, but for a small car. I also think with Mercedes Benz is now trying to make inroads on the low end FWD segment (Mercedes has FWD too ), makes it hard to not go the MB route. A lot of the options you listed are nice luxury features.

I think we will see Mazda and Toyota work together on a new small car in the future. Would benefit both

mmarshall

Well, the argument is not going to be settled until we see the actual sales figures. Neither of us is predicting Camry or Accord-level sales for a Mazda3 turbo, but your view is just more negative than mine, that's all.

mmarshall

They've done that before, and the result was OK but not overwhelming.

The real problem with small cars today (besides the pandemic, which is cutting back on sales of almost all vehicles), is cheap gas. Some are arguing that it has become TOO cheap in the U.S., but I'm not going to take sides on that one.

sm1ke

iTrader: (5)

It does seem high, but I think its competitive enough to take some sales from other vehicles. Take the GTI, for example. You have to step up to the Autobahn trim at $37k to get leather, advanced keyless entry, and adaptive headlights. HUD is not offered, but you get a panoramic sunroof, Dynamic Chassis Control, and an LSD. You also have to add the Driver Assistance package for another $1750, so it's really $38750.

On the other hand, the Veloster N is $35k, but it's more of an enthusiast car so it lacks a lot of the premium/luxury features. 275hp and 260 lb-ft of torque at a curb weight of 3066 lbs, clocks 0-60 in about 5.2s. A turbo 3 would have 250hp and 310 lb-ft of torque at a curb weight of about 3400 lbs, so I don't think it would be quite as fast, but it does have premium features, the selling point of AWD and the option to fuel with regular vs. premium at the cost of less available power above 4k RPM.

A250 4matic hatch starts at $38k and will be slower than the GTI, Veloster N and 2.5T Mazda3. When you start adding packages to get certain features like AA/ACP, BSM, AEB, radar cruise with Stop & Go, advanced keyless entry, navigation, etc., you have to add on an extra $7500, putting it closer to $45k.

Based on the assumed $2k price difference (see post #29) for the turbo engine, that would put the AWD Mazda3 turbo at around $35k. I haven't driven any of these cars, but the thought of spending $4k more on a car that doesn't offer AWD and a brand that is perceived to have a lower reliability (VW), means that the GTI is already at a disadvantage for me before I can even go for a test drive. Same goes for the Veloster N - it's probably faster and it has some cool enthusiast features, but no leather, no available driver assistance, and no AWD for the same price? I'd test drive it just to be sure, but I think I'd still take the Mazda3 (especially when you factor in the unlimited KM warranty that Mazda Canada now offers). And I don't think I'd like the A250 enough to spend an extra $10k on it.

All that said, I have no idea what the pricing on a turbo'd Mazda3 AWD would be, so they could easily shoot themselves in the foot if they get too greedy. Just my opinion.

Toys4RJill

I don’t think the Mazda product planners are gonna try to go after VW GLI and Subaru Do you know what happened to their high tech gas engines that came out to world markets a few years ago?

sm1ke

iTrader: (5)

The engine tech was announced in 2018 but didn't actually make it into a production car until the 2020 Mazda3 and CX-30 overseas. I haven't really been following it, but it appears to be doing fine in Europe. It appears to be doing well in Japan as well.

EDIT: The engine tech I'm referring to is Skyactiv-X

Toys4RJill

I think that might be part of the problem for Mazda and their 3. They should be offering that engine in North America. Toyota has their superb 2.0 at least available for Corolla and it can be found in the UX.

mmarshall

Are you talking about the SkyActiv technology? Mazda also introduced the Miller-cycle engines, decades ago, on their Millenia sedans.

sm1ke

iTrader: (5)

I read an article a while ago about why it hasn't come to the NA market yet, and apparently Mazda is wary about bringing the Skyactiv-X 2.0L over because they think it won't be well received here. When you compare the Sky-X 2.0L to the current Sky-G 2.5L, the Sky-X is more fuel efficient (not sure by how much) but it produces about 8hp less and has the same amount of torque. In Japan, the Mazda3 with the Sky-X 2.0L is 25-30% more expensive than the same car with the Sky-G 2.0L due to the engine tech. Mazda thinks the NA market prioritizes power over fuel efficiency, so they stuck with the more powerful Sky-G engine here.

If they do turbocharge the 3 in 2021, it will likely be the same engine that's in all 2016+ CX-9s and the upper trims of the 2019+ CX-5 and 2018+ Mazda6. Probably cheaper for them (and us) to satisfy buyers who are looking for more power. I think we'd be more likely to see Sky-X here when they release a more powerful, larger displacement version of the engine and stick it in their rumoured upcoming RWD platform.

Toys4RJill

I think it is hard to convince someone that a new engine with less power is better than the outgoing model. It would be interesting to see the 2.0 from Mazda go head to head with the 2.0 from Toyota

SW17LS

Ignore the Mazda haters. I'm glad to see a company working to make their models the best they can be, a turbo will make the Mazda 3 a totally different car.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but $40K CDN is about $20K U.S. isn't it?

Toys4RJill

Who are haters? It’s is a pretty interesting discussion

Toys4RJill

Its odd. The 3 in the US starts at $21.5K where the 3 in Canada starts at $18K

SW17LS

There are several people here who commonly hate on Mazda. Those people hated on Mazda in this thread as well. Mazda is a small niche automaker, they aren't equipped to nor do they plan to sell cars at the same level as Toyota, Honda, etc. Those haters always bring up sales figures in an attempt to cast Mazda vehicles as a failure whenever the topic of a Mazda model comes up. Just shows a lack of understanding about the complexities of the different company's sales goals and capacities. Mazda couldn't even make as many Mazda 3s in a year as Toyota sells Corollas if the demand was there, the definitions of sales success are entirely different.

More options are a good thing, more powertrains are a good thing. Adding a turbo to the Mazda 3 helps make what is already an affordable very desirable and enthusiast slanted car all the moreso.