2022 (NA yr) Genesis G70
03-09-21, 12:08 PM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
But that is just the product...not the brand... People buy brands, not just products.
Like I said before, all things being equal Id rather have a Lexus than a Genesis, but I would never buy an RX over a GV80 or an ES over a G80 because I know those vehicles to be inferior. To many people though the badge on the hood is more important than the product itself.
03-09-21, 12:14 PM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
03-09-21, 12:14 PM
#153
Audi has also kept evolving its line. They brought more RS products and their Etron products have been well received. That new Etron GT is just a sexy beast. 
Lexus has done very little to improve its brand overall...its more Toyota plus now than a true German competitor but its still higher status than the new Genesis brand. The one good thing I can say about it is that its going head to head directly with the German segments. No FWD offerings for the brand and they are undercutting by quite a bit. I hope they do better in the future.
Lexus has done very little to improve its brand overall...its more Toyota plus now than a true German competitor but its still higher status than the new Genesis brand. The one good thing I can say about it is that its going head to head directly with the German segments. No FWD offerings for the brand and they are undercutting by quite a bit. I hope they do better in the future.Audi was always plagued by its FWD origins and Volkswagen lineage, and only after it released the R8 did this perception change.
Last edited by Motorola; 03-09-21 at 12:17 PM.
03-09-21, 12:15 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
03-09-21, 12:20 PM
#155
03-09-21, 12:21 PM
#156
Lexus Fanatic
I personally like the way Genesis is sticking to their brand plan, not building FWD cars or chasing volume.
03-09-21, 12:26 PM
#157
Lexus Fanatic
I'm well aware of that, what I'm saying is as a car enthusiast I don't get that. I understand and feel the pull of brands and prestige too, but I'm not going to drive a car I know to be an inferior car simply because of its brand. If the only reason he didn't buy a car he really liked was the badge on the front of it, that's silly..
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-09-21 at 12:35 PM.
03-09-21, 12:52 PM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
Audi has the advantage of VW's massive multi-brand parts bin. The E-Tron GT is a rebadged Porsche Taycan. The RS line uses a Lamborghini-derived V8. Even the infamous R8 was a Lamborghini Gallardo. Outside of Audi, Volkswagen's ambitions with the Phaeton were essentially a rebadged Bentley Flying Spur. VW Group gives each of its sub-companies a considerable degree of autonomy, and so isn't like Toyota/Lexus or Hyundai/Kia/Genesis where everything is designed very closely together. It's not as much work to design high-performance cars when you have multiple high-performance sub-brands like Lamborghini and Porsche to do the heavy lifting for you to rebadge. Ironically, Audi still can't develop their own RWD architecture after all these years for their primary sedan/SUV lineup. It goes to show how big yet segregated the VW parts bin is.
Audi was always plagued by its FWD origins and Volkswagen lineage, and only after it released the R8 did this perception change.
Audi was always plagued by its FWD origins and Volkswagen lineage, and only after it released the R8 did this perception change.
03-09-21, 12:59 PM
#159
I don't think the R8 changed much of the perception with Audi, it was not a huge seller, 2nd Gen is a pretty low seller and has lost much of the mystique because the styling is a little frumpy. Every Audi vehicle is FWD based aside from the R8 which shares its chassis with Lamborghini so it still basically has the same FWD origins and VW lineage image issue if that concerns people. Audi gained respect through the the A8, S/RS model lines, variety of models with a variety of engines, V8's, V10's, W12's, and at one time some of the nicer interiors in class but they were never on par or even close to the prestige of BMW or Mercedes, I think Audi is a little more prestigious then Lexus but in the States they don't get anywhere near the sales as Lexus. As far as Audi cars they seem to be falling a bit, many disappointments like the new A8, new A7 is not what it was, TT is dead.
The S/RS models always lived in the shadow of M/AMG, and because of their FWD VW origins as you mentioned, few enthusiasts had respect for them back then. Audi's other massive image stain was the infamous fiasco with the Audi 5000 and the unintended acceleration issues, which were inflated by the media and almost single-handedly destroyed the brand in America, a stigma that stuck with their cars all the way through the 90s and early 2000s. Even today, Audi still has brand image issues compared to BMW and Mercedes, as reflected by their lesser sales.
03-09-21, 01:08 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
It just depends on what wants and values in a product.. As a product, an RX is a better value than a GV in every conceivable way...that is the appeal to an RX...there no denying the Lexus brand is superior to Genesis as well.....the GV is probably too expensive for what it is...a GV is closer to a MB or BMW which is where it should be compared. I doubt the GV will grow in sales in second year on the market. Genesis has been out for 6 model years now, the brand probably won't make it long term.
Genesis is doing fine, and the GV80 will continue to do well.
03-09-21, 01:11 PM
#161
Lexus Fanatic
Says who? Genesis is a branch of Hyundai, they don't have to succeed on their own. Thats a lesson Lexus needs to take.
I completely disagree that the RX is a better value than a GV80, the RX has no attributes I would want out of a vehicle, except for a luxury badge, while the GV80 has many attributes I value, so for me the GV80 is a much better value because it would be compared against other proper luxury vehicles like an X5/X7, GLE etc. RX is a vehicle for people who want an inexpensive vehicle with a luxury badge that doesn't really have any high end attributes, that's not me.
Genesis is doing fine, and the GV80 will continue to do well.
I completely disagree that the RX is a better value than a GV80, the RX has no attributes I would want out of a vehicle, except for a luxury badge, while the GV80 has many attributes I value, so for me the GV80 is a much better value because it would be compared against other proper luxury vehicles like an X5/X7, GLE etc. RX is a vehicle for people who want an inexpensive vehicle with a luxury badge that doesn't really have any high end attributes, that's not me.
Genesis is doing fine, and the GV80 will continue to do well.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-09-21 at 01:14 PM.
03-09-21, 01:15 PM
#162
Lexus Fanatic
Theres also a big difference in styling language which appeals to you or doesnt. Personally I think both the G70 and the IS are better looking than the 3 Series.
03-09-21, 01:19 PM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
So people who want brand image...Would rather have the Audi BMW or Mercedes
03-09-21, 01:21 PM
#164
If brand image was the sole factor in buying a car, Jaguar, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, and Cadillac wouldn't all be in their current plights. The German trio stay at the top because they continue to make competitive vehicles and flood every segment.
03-09-21, 01:24 PM
#165
Lexus Fanatic
Some of this makes no sense. BMW flanks the G70 with the 2 series sedan and the 3 series. Because BMW is a better brand, BMW can charge more. That’s the whole point. G70 competes with the IS, Lexus IS where the sales are coming from. Lexus has an inferior product...but the Lexus brand is superior to Genesis. Will Genesis succeed