2022 (NA yr) Genesis G70
03-10-21, 07:54 AM
#181
Lexus Test Driver
I dont agree there at all. The 3 Series has always been the sportier entry and the C Class the more luxury focused car, but as far as caliber of car they are very well matched.
Absolutely. I went and sat in a few, haven't driven one. Its the real deal, really a great car. ES is a nice car too, but its not a truly premium platform and car like the G80.
Absolutely. I went and sat in a few, haven't driven one. Its the real deal, really a great car. ES is a nice car too, but its not a truly premium platform and car like the G80.
I actually saw a G70 in my neighborhood yesterday. Its a rare unicorn where I live and this is so-cal... basically the mecca of little sports sedans. Their best bet is to electrify their lineup before BMW and Mercedes as they have better tech right now on that front.
03-10-21, 08:37 AM
#182
Lexus Fanatic
I find that Genesis makes nicer cars than BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus at the same price. The G70 has a way nicer interior than even the latest IS and a $45k G70 is about as fast as a $60k IS500 and much much faster than a $45k base IS350 or IS300. A $45k BMW isn't all that great...bargain basement model. But they have to be because they are a value play in the luxury space. Lexus was the same way for many years and although prices have risen a bit to become more comparable to the Germans, its still the cheaper option. When Lexus starts pricing cars the same as the Germans, they tend to do much worse in terms of sales.
I actually saw a G70 in my neighborhood yesterday. Its a rare unicorn where I live and this is so-cal... basically the mecca of little sports sedans. Their best bet is to electrify their lineup before BMW and Mercedes as they have better tech right now on that front.
I actually saw a G70 in my neighborhood yesterday. Its a rare unicorn where I live and this is so-cal... basically the mecca of little sports sedans. Their best bet is to electrify their lineup before BMW and Mercedes as they have better tech right now on that front.
03-10-21, 09:33 AM
#183
In case it was forgotten, the 2nd-gen Hyundai Genesis was the third best-seller in its segment (behind the 5 Series and E-Class) when it debuted, until it became rebadged as the Genesis G80 and had to deal with the dealership network fiasco. Most people aren't as badge snobbish as some would like them to be.
03-10-21, 09:47 AM
#184
Lexus Fanatic
03-10-21, 09:54 AM
#185
Lexus Fanatic
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You keep moving the goal posts. First it's brand, now it's 'value'. I saw a new RX the other day and my reaction to the hideous side profile proportions and giant front overhang was "ewww". We all know it's reliable, comfortable, and old, popular and a good 'value' to those it appeals to.
?
You keep moving the goal posts. First it's brand, now it's 'value'. I saw a new RX the other day and my reaction to the hideous side profile proportions and giant front overhang was "ewww". We all know it's reliable, comfortable, and old, popular and a good 'value' to those it appeals to.
?
03-10-21, 01:17 PM
#186
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
while lexus is winning that battle though (right now), it's losing the war, losing in sales volume (and i suspect avg transaction price) by a long shot to bmw and mercedes for all the myriad reasons we've all discussed many times.
Lexus Sales Figures - US Market | GCBC (goodcarbadcar.net)
BMW Group Sales Figures - US Market | GCBC (goodcarbadcar.net)
Mercedes-Benz Sales Figures - US Market | GCBC (goodcarbadcar.net)
03-10-21, 01:34 PM
#187
Lexus Fanatic
the RX is a relatively large fwd 'value'-based premium, extremely reliable and smooth suv. it obviously hits a sweet spot with a load of consumers. and i agree that it epitomizes what people like in lexus - classy, reliable, not too flashy, good value. to me it's not very luxurious and with all the changes is a bit like someone who wasn't that great looking who's had one too many nips and tucks, it just kinda looks weird. but obviously about 100k (u.s.) a year are happy to put one in their garage/driveway.
)
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As for losing the war...maybe you are right...but Lexus sales were up 10% pre pandemic.....
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-10-21 at 01:40 PM.
03-10-21, 03:56 PM
#188
Lexus Fanatic
03-11-21, 03:59 AM
#190
Pole Position
so i came back to see a dissection of why i chose to buy the 'brand' and not the model. welp, folks, let me tell you! when i am spending around 70k on a new car (and that was just the pseudo-upper limit that i had self-imposed), i want the brand behind the car to have some pedigree. so when speaking of genesis, i mean, it's almost akin to saying, yeah, sure, buy the best house in the worst neighborhood or within the best neighborhood in the worst city. no, of course you wouldn't do that. i mean, sure, some people would because they prioritize different things, but no. lexus has worked hard for over 30 years to build a reputation that undercuts and still does undercut the competition and is largely considered, in the US and Canada at least, to be a tier-one marque. and of course the same holds true for audi (whose perception has been up and down in the US, but largely well-perceived in europe throughout my 36 years on the planet being both a citizen of the US as well as the EU, as well as MB, and BMW - BMW also not terribly prestigious until relatively recently compared to MB -- 80s is when they really were taken seriously as luxury sports automaker by the masses in NA, i believe?).
i am not about to buy into the some funky brand that popped up four years ago and is charging bmw and audi money for their products and unjustifiably so which is why their products are not selling. their vehicles might be okay, but if you sit in a g70 and then you sit in an s4, the s4 is the superior product by far hands down. there is no question that the quality, choice and variety of materials everywhere throughout the cabin is superior, not to mention the solidity of everything. for those who haven't been in either car, just take a look at the photos of the center stack of the g70 pre or post-facelift and compare them against those of the s4 and then actually sit in the vehicles and the difference is night and day. like, touch the buttons, ***** and switches in both vehicles. really, touch them. then there is the performance, where the s4 also outperforms the g70 if only by a hair, however audi, like the rest of its german brethren tends to underrate its engine performance and the 0-60 figures that the brand claims for the s4 have been proven to be conservative based on tests conducted by major automotive news outlets and publications. the refinement of the powertrain is another highlight of the s4 - it's just in a class above the genesis and i don't think anyone on the planet would be able to argue that they are indeed in the same class. as someone pointed out above, lexus' IS is the direct competitor to the g70 but those in charge at genesis seem to have some delusions of grandeur. i mean, it's good to have aspirations, but let's be serious, there are no shortcuts to the front of the line, especially when the vehicle/marque is from south korea and not europe. it's an unfortunate consequence of european elitism, but that consequence is a reality for much of the world, and the western world without question.
genesis has no business charging what it is for the products that they are offering even if they are objectively good (but not great). i know there are many who will say they are great but i'm not one of them. i merely like the way the facelifted g70 *looks* but i do not like the interior of the vehicle and where do i spend my time? the interior of the vehicle. who sees the exterior of the vehicle? well, me, but also the rest of the world and i simply can't justify spending even a4 money on a genesis product. also, i chose the s4 because it is designed in such a way that its elegance is understated and it doesn't shout out to the world the way an alfa romeo giulia does. i do not need a bright red amg 43 to tell the world that i have money. this is a stealth wealth machine that i happen to think is very good looking both inside and out and it fulfills my needs well. that said, again, genesis? i just can't.
furthermore, i don't like that the g70 has both the 2l t and the 3.3l t under the same moniker. that's a bit strange in the era of differentiating which powerplant is under the hood via some sort of indication, e.g. 330i vs m340i/m3, c300 vs amg 43/63, a4 vs s4/rs4.
i'm far from alone in thinking this way but perhaps i've rationalized it more eloquently than the average luxury car buyer who will simply state that they leased their base model bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4 because it was simply a bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4. that said, don't get me wrong in stating that there is absolutely a prestige factor that comes into play when spending over x amount of dollars on any vehicle within any class, whether moving from kia to honda or from honda to acura or from acura to bmw or from bmw to rolls royce or from rolls royce to aston martin or some funky supercar to some funkier hypercar.
i am not about to buy into the some funky brand that popped up four years ago and is charging bmw and audi money for their products and unjustifiably so which is why their products are not selling. their vehicles might be okay, but if you sit in a g70 and then you sit in an s4, the s4 is the superior product by far hands down. there is no question that the quality, choice and variety of materials everywhere throughout the cabin is superior, not to mention the solidity of everything. for those who haven't been in either car, just take a look at the photos of the center stack of the g70 pre or post-facelift and compare them against those of the s4 and then actually sit in the vehicles and the difference is night and day. like, touch the buttons, ***** and switches in both vehicles. really, touch them. then there is the performance, where the s4 also outperforms the g70 if only by a hair, however audi, like the rest of its german brethren tends to underrate its engine performance and the 0-60 figures that the brand claims for the s4 have been proven to be conservative based on tests conducted by major automotive news outlets and publications. the refinement of the powertrain is another highlight of the s4 - it's just in a class above the genesis and i don't think anyone on the planet would be able to argue that they are indeed in the same class. as someone pointed out above, lexus' IS is the direct competitor to the g70 but those in charge at genesis seem to have some delusions of grandeur. i mean, it's good to have aspirations, but let's be serious, there are no shortcuts to the front of the line, especially when the vehicle/marque is from south korea and not europe. it's an unfortunate consequence of european elitism, but that consequence is a reality for much of the world, and the western world without question.
genesis has no business charging what it is for the products that they are offering even if they are objectively good (but not great). i know there are many who will say they are great but i'm not one of them. i merely like the way the facelifted g70 *looks* but i do not like the interior of the vehicle and where do i spend my time? the interior of the vehicle. who sees the exterior of the vehicle? well, me, but also the rest of the world and i simply can't justify spending even a4 money on a genesis product. also, i chose the s4 because it is designed in such a way that its elegance is understated and it doesn't shout out to the world the way an alfa romeo giulia does. i do not need a bright red amg 43 to tell the world that i have money. this is a stealth wealth machine that i happen to think is very good looking both inside and out and it fulfills my needs well. that said, again, genesis? i just can't.
furthermore, i don't like that the g70 has both the 2l t and the 3.3l t under the same moniker. that's a bit strange in the era of differentiating which powerplant is under the hood via some sort of indication, e.g. 330i vs m340i/m3, c300 vs amg 43/63, a4 vs s4/rs4.
i'm far from alone in thinking this way but perhaps i've rationalized it more eloquently than the average luxury car buyer who will simply state that they leased their base model bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4 because it was simply a bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4. that said, don't get me wrong in stating that there is absolutely a prestige factor that comes into play when spending over x amount of dollars on any vehicle within any class, whether moving from kia to honda or from honda to acura or from acura to bmw or from bmw to rolls royce or from rolls royce to aston martin or some funky supercar to some funkier hypercar.
Last edited by davyjordi; 03-11-21 at 04:33 AM.
03-11-21, 08:40 AM
#191
Lexus Fanatic
so i came back to see a dissection of why i chose to buy the 'brand' and not the model. welp, folks, let me tell you! when i am spending around 70k on a new car (and that was just the pseudo-upper limit that i had self-imposed), i want the brand behind the car to have some pedigree. so when speaking of genesis, i mean, it's almost akin to saying, yeah, sure, buy the best house in the worst neighborhood or within the best neighborhood in the worst city. no, of course you wouldn't do that. i mean, sure, some people would because they prioritize different things, but no. lexus has worked hard for over 30 years to build a reputation that undercuts and still does undercut the competition and is largely considered, in the US and Canada at least, to be a tier-one marque. and of course the same holds true for audi (whose perception has been up and down in the US, but largely well-perceived in europe throughout my 36 years on the planet being both a citizen of the US as well as the EU, as well as MB, and BMW - BMW also not terribly prestigious until relatively recently compared to MB -- 80s is when they really were taken seriously as luxury sports automaker by the masses in NA, i believe?).
I find the inclusion of Lexus into your discussion of pedigree whats interesting. if you were to be as snobbish about MB or BMW or Audi I would see your point, but not Lexus. Lexus is a newcomer, and they have flopped around building cars that don't really compete for half their life at this point. Your perception of Lexus is not based on their products at all. There is zero reason to include Lexus into the tier 1 luxury carmaker group today.
i am not about to buy into the some funky brand that popped up four years ago and is charging bmw and audi money for their products and unjustifiably so which is why their products are not selling. their vehicles might be okay, but if you sit in a g70 and then you sit in an s4, the s4 is the superior product by far hands down. there is no question that the quality, choice and variety of materials everywhere throughout the cabin is superior, not to mention the solidity of everything. for those who haven't been in either car, just take a look at the photos of the center stack of the g70 pre or post-facelift and compare them against those of the s4 and then actually sit in the vehicles and the difference is night and day. like, touch the buttons, ***** and switches in both vehicles. really, touch them. then there is the performance, where the s4 also outperforms the g70 if only by a hair, however audi, like the rest of its german brethren tends to underrate its engine performance and the 0-60 figures that the brand claims for the s4 have been proven to be conservative based on tests conducted by major automotive news outlets and publications. the refinement of the powertrain is another highlight of the s4 - it's just in a class above the genesis and i don't think anyone on the planet would be able to argue that they are indeed in the same class. as someone pointed out above, lexus' IS is the direct competitor to the g70 but those in charge at genesis seem to have some delusions of grandeur. i mean, it's good to have aspirations, but let's be serious, there are no shortcuts to the front of the line, especially when the vehicle/marque is from south korea and not europe. it's an unfortunate consequence of european elitism, but that consequence is a reality for much of the world, and the western world without question.
2. I have sat in a G70 and an S4...not saying I would choose the G70 in that segment but I would not choose the A4 or S4. They dont appeal to me at all. Of course the S4 is a class above the Genesis, but the A4 is not.
3. I actually find Genesis interiors very high quality and solid build with great materials. Equal of the germans, and certainly better than Lexus.
4. Would you not have bought a Lexus in 1994/1995 because they were "a funky brand that just popped up 4 years ago"? That was when they were building their best cars
Have you driven a G70 or any Genesis?
i'm far from alone in thinking this way but perhaps i've rationalized it more eloquently than the average luxury car buyer who will simply state that they leased their base model bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4 because it was simply a bmw 330i/mb c300/audi a4. that said, don't get me wrong in stating that there is absolutely a prestige factor that comes into play when spending over x amount of dollars on any vehicle within any class, whether moving from kia to honda or from honda to acura or from acura to bmw or from bmw to rolls royce or from rolls royce to aston martin or some funky supercar to some funkier hypercar.
If I thought a Genesis was the best car I could get for the money in a specific segment, I would choose the Genesis without reservation.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-11-21 at 09:15 AM.
03-11-21, 09:16 AM
#192
so i came back to see a dissection of why i chose to buy the 'brand' and not the model. welp, folks, let me tell you! when i am spending around 70k on a new car (and that was just the pseudo-upper limit that i had self-imposed), i want the brand behind the car to have some pedigree.
03-11-21, 09:18 AM
#193
Lexus Fanatic
The issue is its all about brand, not product. At his age Lexus and Infiniti have been around for most of his life, so they have a "pedigree".
03-11-21, 09:25 AM
#194
That's the thing- as brands, Tesla is barely older than Genesis (which has a badge that dates back to '08) and Infiniti has almost zero brand prestige. And objectively, no Infiniti or Tesla even comes close to the build quality of a Genesis. Even performance-wise, the most powerful Q50 can't match a G70 3.3TT. The only takeaway I can presume from this is that davyjordi has some degree of prejudice against Korean cars.
03-11-21, 10:01 AM
#195
Lexus Test Driver
That's the thing- as brands, Tesla is barely older than Genesis (which has a badge that dates back to '08) and Infiniti has almost zero brand prestige. And objectively, no Infiniti or Tesla even comes close to the build quality of a Genesis. Even performance-wise, the most powerful Q50 can't match a G70 3.3TT. The only takeaway I can presume from this is that davyjordi has some degree of prejudice against Korean cars.
The Tesla would absolutely crush the G70 in acceleration though and the tech is much better so I can see why it appeals to more people. The Infiniti...not so much.