Drove S560, 740i & LS500 back to back to back on the same test loop
07-04-20, 08:47 AM
#16
Lead Lap
07-04-20, 08:49 AM
#17
Great review as always from you. I like how you compared all three and gave an unbiased assessment even as a Lexus owner. My father in law has the S450 and it's an excellent car. As for the Idrive 7, it is very simple to use despite what some people say here. Next time just say " hey BMW, show me tire pressures display". Chances are the tires were overinflated which happens a-lot with BMW cars on the lot. Idrive 7 is easy to use and the virtual assistant is very intuitive and even understands my heavy foreign accent lol.
ps. just saw two posters above me saying the same thing lol regarding idrive 7. what's hard to use is the system in my spouse's RX350.
ps. just saw two posters above me saying the same thing lol regarding idrive 7. what's hard to use is the system in my spouse's RX350.
Last edited by EXE46; 07-04-20 at 08:52 AM.
07-04-20, 08:51 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Great review as always from you. I like how you compared all three and gave an unbiased assessment even as a Lexus owner. My father in law has the S450 and it's an excellent car. As for the Idrive 7, it is very simple to use despite what some people say here. Next time just say " hey BMW, show me tire pressures display". Chances are the tires were overinflated which happens a-lot with BMW cars on the lot. Idrive 7 is easy to use and the virtual assistant is very intuitive and even understands my heavy foreign accent lol.
I never even thought about using the "hey BMW" lol
07-04-20, 09:05 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I don't know all of the reasons for doing that at the factory before shipment, but two reasons, as I understand it, are, First, to guard against excessive air-leakage during transit if there is any kind of tire or sealing-problem that was not caught at the factory, and, Two, to keep the tires stiff and and round enough as the transporter truck / train/ ship sways or hits bumps, to keep an overly- soft tire from allowing the wheel-rim to hit the truck or trained and be damaged....particularly with today's low tire-profiles. At the dealership, the PDI people are supposed to adjust the tire pressures close to recommended after the vehicles are unloaded, but, more often than not, they simply fail to do so. But, Hey.....what do you expect for minimum wage, or close to it LOL?
07-04-20, 09:53 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
great reviews... 
first world problems...
i know it might be more 'plebian'
but i'd love you to go drive a 2020 G90 to compare to what you just did. sure, no air suspension, but would like to read your comments anyway, especially noise level as it now has the noise cancellation.
first world problems...
i know it might be more 'plebian'
but i'd love you to go drive a 2020 G90 to compare to what you just did. sure, no air suspension, but would like to read your comments anyway, especially noise level as it now has the noise cancellation.
07-04-20, 10:00 AM
#21
I don't believe the refresh G90 has the active sound cancellation from the GV80, if that's what you're referring to. The new G80 doesn't have it either.
07-04-20, 10:06 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
07-04-20, 10:10 AM
#23
07-04-20, 10:22 AM
#24
Lead Lap
07-04-20, 11:44 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
07-04-20, 11:56 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
Chantilly Genesis currently has one 2020 G90 in stock....a 3.3 V6 AWD....same at Genesis of Rockville. But I assume you guys want to sample the V8.
(I see that the Rockville Genesis is part of the Fitz way now. Although there are some exceptions, I always liked most of that chain of dealerships, their staffs, and the way they do business).
(I see that the Rockville Genesis is part of the Fitz way now. Although there are some exceptions, I always liked most of that chain of dealerships, their staffs, and the way they do business).
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-04-20 at 12:02 PM.
07-04-20, 12:05 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Not a fan at all of Fitzgerald. Met a lot of really rude salespeople there over the years, I know a guy too that works for them now. Their salespeople make very little, that may be a reason why. I have also never found their "no haggle" prices very compelling, and they actually WILL haggle.
Finding a V8 G90 is going to be tough. A V6 one would be fine for sampling the ride and drive.
Finding a V8 G90 is going to be tough. A V6 one would be fine for sampling the ride and drive.
07-04-20, 08:26 PM
#28
Lead Lap
is it possible that the 7 series never really got to properly stretch its legs? i'm one of the last people to jump to the defense of BMW, but as a fan of flagship sedans i guess i feel some need to come to the defense of the 7 series because it is supposed to be the driver's big sedan and in my experience BMWs really aren't that great until they start getting pushed a bit
either way i'd definitely go S560 out of those 3
either way i'd definitely go S560 out of those 3
07-05-20, 10:42 AM
#29
Pole Position
Ride and Drive 1. S560, 2. 740, 3. LS500
The S560 Is the champ here for sure. What surprised me is that despite the reviews and all lauding the 7 Series as having a very soft ride, I didn't think it rode especially well, certainly not as well as the S560 and in fact, I didn't think it rode that much better than the LS500. There was a graininess to its ride, it never felt like it was gliding along the pavement the way the S Class does, never felt that detachment from the road. Likely thats by design, as the 7 is notably nimbler than the S, but I didn't really get where the reviewers who made that claim were coming from. The LS is the sportiest of the bunch, but I gotta say I do think it gets a bad rap. This is not a poorly riding car, it just doesnt feel like a big luxury sedan on the road. It feels more like an evolution of the GS, which was a very nice riding car just firmly damped. Notable too, the S and 7 I drove were on 19s, the LS was on 20s. All three cars were very quiet, along the same course S was 58 db, 7 58 db, LS 60 db (my LS460L measured 58 dB after). The LS500 has some wind noise at speed I noticed also when I drove it before, and some tire noise made it through. 7 Series has no wind noise, but did have some tire noise. S Class did a better job of quieting that (Both had the same Pirelli P7 Runflats) although that difference didn't show up in the dB readings. All 3 of these cars are on runflats, and I would replace them on all of them with regular tires which will undoubtedly improve the ride and noise.
The S560 Is the champ here for sure. What surprised me is that despite the reviews and all lauding the 7 Series as having a very soft ride, I didn't think it rode especially well, certainly not as well as the S560 and in fact, I didn't think it rode that much better than the LS500. There was a graininess to its ride, it never felt like it was gliding along the pavement the way the S Class does, never felt that detachment from the road. Likely thats by design, as the 7 is notably nimbler than the S, but I didn't really get where the reviewers who made that claim were coming from. The LS is the sportiest of the bunch, but I gotta say I do think it gets a bad rap. This is not a poorly riding car, it just doesnt feel like a big luxury sedan on the road. It feels more like an evolution of the GS, which was a very nice riding car just firmly damped. Notable too, the S and 7 I drove were on 19s, the LS was on 20s. All three cars were very quiet, along the same course S was 58 db, 7 58 db, LS 60 db (my LS460L measured 58 dB after). The LS500 has some wind noise at speed I noticed also when I drove it before, and some tire noise made it through. 7 Series has no wind noise, but did have some tire noise. S Class did a better job of quieting that (Both had the same Pirelli P7 Runflats) although that difference didn't show up in the dB readings. All 3 of these cars are on runflats, and I would replace them on all of them with regular tires which will undoubtedly improve the ride and noise.
It's only the large external dimensions and elevated price tag that fools people into believing it's the typical Lexus flagship cushmobile when actually it's a midsize sports sedan in disguise. From a few reviews I've read, it's agility and nimbleness belies its perceived size. I believe Lexus targeted the LS500 against the Porsche Panamera rather than the traditional flagship sedans like 7 series,S-class or even the old LS460.
Reading your hands-on review only confirms my suspicions. A traditional LS460 owner like yourself looking to continue the same would no doubt be disappointed in the new LS500. 4GS aficionados mourning the loss of the GS should probably look to the LS500 to get their GS fix, if they could get past the higher price tag and external size of the LS500.
The final piece of evidence that drives home my contention that the LS500 is a midsize sports sedan in Flagship sedan livery : Interior passenger volume of the 2020 5 series = 98.9 cubic feet. Interior passenger volume of the 2020 LS500 = 99.4 cubic feet
No wonder Lexus got rid of the GS. Toyota saw the writing on the wall and realized that with the trends in public tastes, GS and LS sales would tank no matter what. Their solution? Lexus didn't just get rid of the GS, they also effectively killed off the traditional LS, combined the GS and LS into one mid-sizer and slapped the LS badge on it. You want the sporty GS experience but want more luxury and space then the IS? Get the new LS500.
The 2021 IS nor the 2020 ES aren't the GS replacements in the Lexus line-up, it's the 2020 and up LS.
reference :
https://www.thecarconnection.com/spe..._5-series_2020
https://www.thecarconnection.com/spe.../lexus_ls_2020
Last edited by natnut; 07-05-20 at 10:47 AM.
07-05-20, 11:12 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
No wonder Lexus got rid of the GS. Toyota saw the writing on the wall and realized that with the trends in public tastes, GS and LS sales would tank no matter what. Their solution? Lexus didn't just get rid of the GS, they also effectively killed off the traditional LS, combined the GS and LS into one mid-sizer and slapped the LS badge on it. You want the sporty GS experience but want more luxury and space then the IS? Get the new LS500.
1) a $60K GS buyer is unlikely to more to a $100K LS and probably doesn't want a vehicle that long.
2) midsize luxury sedans are still selling, lexus just chose not to bring competitive offerings. MB E, 5 series, G80, A6, etc.
3) if they saw the GS/LS market shrinking (right overall, in favor of cuv/suvs) why not REALLY upgrade the whole cuv/suv line? the only thing new in years is the UX which is selling quite well worldwide (it's the new cheap lexus and way better than the CT200h)
4) lexus chose to drop the GS, change the LS into a long GS as you said, and the rest is mostly tweaks, repackaging, and repricing old models except the ES which is great for what it is.