Drove S560, 740i & LS500 back to back to back on the same test loop
07-03-20, 09:06 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Drove S560, 740i & LS500 back to back to back on the same test loop
So I had some time this afternoon, and all of the dealers are slow because of COIVID and it being 4th of July Weekend. I set out to drive a 740i that a local dealer had that was spec'ed closely to what I would want if I were to consider one, and while I was at it I took advantage of MB and Lexus being in such close proximity that I test drove everything back to back on the same test loop.
Thought I would share some thoughts. I drove a 740i which had a sticker price of about $98k. Its missing a couple things I would want (like no cooled seats, really? In a $98k car?) and one spec'ed the way I would want would be about $103k or so. The S560 was a pretty well equipped AMG line version with a sticker of $123k, and the LS500 was medium optioned car with a sticker of $92k. It had been a long while since I drove an LS500. The LS was optioned exactly how I would want, thats one of the things I like about Lexus, their packages just work for me out of the box, MB and BMW are more of a challenge. All 3 cars had air suspension.
Exterior Styling 1: Mercedes S560 2: BMW 740 3: Lexus LS500
So this is an area where I've had some changes of thought. Originally I HATED the big new 7 Series grille, but I have to say that as I have been looking online at pictures and in person, I actually kind of like it. The 7 Series looks really long, which I like. The S Class of course is beautiful, especially with the AMG exterior package (expensive at $5k but worth it) while the 7 Series I like in both M Sport trim and regular luxury trim. I've grown to like the LS500 a lot too. All three cars I would be happy with the exterior styling of.
Interior 1: BMW 740, 2: Mercedes S560, 3: Lexus LS500
This is also something that surprised me. I actually really like the 7 Series inside. Its EASILY the largest of the bunch, has the most traditional interior styling and shape. The back seats are HUGE, while the rear legroom in the S560 and especially the LS500 was much tighter. The 7 Series feels bigger inside upfront too, with the LS feeling quite tight and sporty as we've discussed before. Interior quality at lower spec goes to the LS500, higher spec goes to the 7 and then the S in a close second. One of the frustrating things about both the 7 and S to me is that even at high MSRPs they typically lack things I really like, such as a sueded headliner. You have to go to Merino leather in the 7 to get that or get a very rare interior upgrade package with Napa leather, and exclusive Napa in the S to get that, and in the LS its basically on every car that isn't a really low trim. I'm happy with the seat leather on both the 7 and S in the Napa trim, all that is missing is the sueded headliner. Now that I'm used to the sueded headliners, the cloth ones in both the 7 and S feel cheap to me. That basically means you'd have to special order a 7, and an S with the exclusive Napa on the lot is a very high MSRP car (like, $130k). The LS500 materials are excellent everywhere, what isn't leather is suede, what isn't wood is metal. The same is true of the 7 and S with a few exceptions (they have harder feel materials around there lower door, and the bottom of the B pillar is surprisingly hard crappy plastic in the 7) but the German cars feel dour in the base leather options where the LS feels much richer. Seat quality is very good in all, I love the physical adjustable backrest in the 7 like I had in my GS. The backrest is adjustable on the S and LS but its an inflatable section that isn't as comfortable to me. LS has the best massage seats.
From a tech perspective, the 7 leads and the S is close behind, while the LS is a distant, distant third. BMW has a lot of neat features like the backup assistant that will automatically reverse your course by tracking the steering input you used pulling in for like 160 feet. Very cool. Infotainment is 7, S, LS, no surprise there. I did find the 7 Series screen to be disappointingly small. The screen in my LS460 is 12.3" and the same is true in the LS500 and the S Class, the one in the 7 is only 10 inches and it definitely felt small. Newer BMW interiors such as that in the X7 & X5 use a 12" screen. I can understand why they upsized in in the refresh 5 Series and I wish they had in the 7. All 3 cars have a virtual instrument cluster, best is MB second is BMW and the LS is third. I don't care for the small monopod setup they use in the LS500, and only the screen in the S Class is really customizable.
Powertrain 1. LS500, 2: 740 (not compared S560):
I didn't include the S560 in this because obviously its the best, but I will say, the engine in the LS500 is much smoother and more refined than I remember, and surprisingly I found it moreso in both areas that the straight 6 in the 740. It doesnt have the refined thrust of the V8, but of these 6 cyl options...it might just be the best, Power in the 740 is MUCH better than its low 335 HP figure would suggest, its incredible to believe the LS is 90 more HP. As a side note, the S560 doesnt feel that much quicker, but the smooth effortless thrust of power makes driving it a much different experience. I'd like to try a 750 also.
Ride and Drive 1. S560, 2. 740, 3. LS500
The S560 Is the champ here for sure. What surprised me is that despite the reviews and all lauding the 7 Series as having a very soft ride, I didn't think it rode especially well, certainly not as well as the S560 and in fact, I didn't think it rode that much better than the LS500. There was a graininess to its ride, it never felt like it was gliding along the pavement the way the S Class does, never felt that detachment from the road. Likely thats by design, as the 7 is notably nimbler than the S, but I didn't really get where the reviewers who made that claim were coming from. The LS is the sportiest of the bunch, but I gotta say I do think it gets a bad rap. This is not a poorly riding car, it just doesnt feel like a big luxury sedan on the road. It feels more like an evolution of the GS, which was a very nice riding car just firmly damped. Notable too, the S and 7 I drove were on 19s, the LS was on 20s. All three cars were very quiet, along the same course S was 58 db, 7 58 db, LS 60 db (my LS460L measured 58 dB after). The LS500 has some wind noise at speed I noticed also when I drove it before, and some tire noise made it through. 7 Series has no wind noise, but did have some tire noise. S Class did a better job of quieting that (Both had the same Pirelli P7 Runflats) although that difference didn't show up in the dB readings. All 3 of these cars are on runflats, and I would replace them on all of them with regular tires which will undoubtedly improve the ride and noise.
Lease Value 1. 740, 2. LS500, 3. S560
Leases on the 740 are CHEAP. I mean, cheap. Their teaser lease is $699! Teaser lease on the S560 is $1,350! S450 is $1,050. Optioned out the way I would want it and zero drive off, I could probably lease a 740 for ~ $1,100. Thats a great deal for a car with an MSRP over $100k. LS500 doesnt have as attractive lease rates, and you'd be looking at a payment of around the same as the 7 Series but with a car with a $10k cheaper MSRP. S Class is the most expensive obviously. S560 optioned like I would want is $1,500-$1,600, a big gap. Finance rates are great on all, you can finance an S Class for 2.9%, whoever thought that would be possible?
So what's the winner? The S Class no doubt, but the financial side of it makes it a tough car to pony up for. The 7 Series is a very compelling value prospect...
Did this provide me any clarity in my decision? No...and I still don't find myself *wanting* any of these cars over what I have...so I'm still not really sure what I will do. Don't get me wrong, they are all great cars but they just didn't leave me driving home wishing I was driving one of them.
Looking forward to everybody's thoughts.
Thought I would share some thoughts. I drove a 740i which had a sticker price of about $98k. Its missing a couple things I would want (like no cooled seats, really? In a $98k car?) and one spec'ed the way I would want would be about $103k or so. The S560 was a pretty well equipped AMG line version with a sticker of $123k, and the LS500 was medium optioned car with a sticker of $92k. It had been a long while since I drove an LS500. The LS was optioned exactly how I would want, thats one of the things I like about Lexus, their packages just work for me out of the box, MB and BMW are more of a challenge. All 3 cars had air suspension.
Exterior Styling 1: Mercedes S560 2: BMW 740 3: Lexus LS500
So this is an area where I've had some changes of thought. Originally I HATED the big new 7 Series grille, but I have to say that as I have been looking online at pictures and in person, I actually kind of like it. The 7 Series looks really long, which I like. The S Class of course is beautiful, especially with the AMG exterior package (expensive at $5k but worth it) while the 7 Series I like in both M Sport trim and regular luxury trim. I've grown to like the LS500 a lot too. All three cars I would be happy with the exterior styling of.
Interior 1: BMW 740, 2: Mercedes S560, 3: Lexus LS500
This is also something that surprised me. I actually really like the 7 Series inside. Its EASILY the largest of the bunch, has the most traditional interior styling and shape. The back seats are HUGE, while the rear legroom in the S560 and especially the LS500 was much tighter. The 7 Series feels bigger inside upfront too, with the LS feeling quite tight and sporty as we've discussed before. Interior quality at lower spec goes to the LS500, higher spec goes to the 7 and then the S in a close second. One of the frustrating things about both the 7 and S to me is that even at high MSRPs they typically lack things I really like, such as a sueded headliner. You have to go to Merino leather in the 7 to get that or get a very rare interior upgrade package with Napa leather, and exclusive Napa in the S to get that, and in the LS its basically on every car that isn't a really low trim. I'm happy with the seat leather on both the 7 and S in the Napa trim, all that is missing is the sueded headliner. Now that I'm used to the sueded headliners, the cloth ones in both the 7 and S feel cheap to me. That basically means you'd have to special order a 7, and an S with the exclusive Napa on the lot is a very high MSRP car (like, $130k). The LS500 materials are excellent everywhere, what isn't leather is suede, what isn't wood is metal. The same is true of the 7 and S with a few exceptions (they have harder feel materials around there lower door, and the bottom of the B pillar is surprisingly hard crappy plastic in the 7) but the German cars feel dour in the base leather options where the LS feels much richer. Seat quality is very good in all, I love the physical adjustable backrest in the 7 like I had in my GS. The backrest is adjustable on the S and LS but its an inflatable section that isn't as comfortable to me. LS has the best massage seats.
From a tech perspective, the 7 leads and the S is close behind, while the LS is a distant, distant third. BMW has a lot of neat features like the backup assistant that will automatically reverse your course by tracking the steering input you used pulling in for like 160 feet. Very cool. Infotainment is 7, S, LS, no surprise there. I did find the 7 Series screen to be disappointingly small. The screen in my LS460 is 12.3" and the same is true in the LS500 and the S Class, the one in the 7 is only 10 inches and it definitely felt small. Newer BMW interiors such as that in the X7 & X5 use a 12" screen. I can understand why they upsized in in the refresh 5 Series and I wish they had in the 7. All 3 cars have a virtual instrument cluster, best is MB second is BMW and the LS is third. I don't care for the small monopod setup they use in the LS500, and only the screen in the S Class is really customizable.
Powertrain 1. LS500, 2: 740 (not compared S560):
I didn't include the S560 in this because obviously its the best, but I will say, the engine in the LS500 is much smoother and more refined than I remember, and surprisingly I found it moreso in both areas that the straight 6 in the 740. It doesnt have the refined thrust of the V8, but of these 6 cyl options...it might just be the best, Power in the 740 is MUCH better than its low 335 HP figure would suggest, its incredible to believe the LS is 90 more HP. As a side note, the S560 doesnt feel that much quicker, but the smooth effortless thrust of power makes driving it a much different experience. I'd like to try a 750 also.
Ride and Drive 1. S560, 2. 740, 3. LS500
The S560 Is the champ here for sure. What surprised me is that despite the reviews and all lauding the 7 Series as having a very soft ride, I didn't think it rode especially well, certainly not as well as the S560 and in fact, I didn't think it rode that much better than the LS500. There was a graininess to its ride, it never felt like it was gliding along the pavement the way the S Class does, never felt that detachment from the road. Likely thats by design, as the 7 is notably nimbler than the S, but I didn't really get where the reviewers who made that claim were coming from. The LS is the sportiest of the bunch, but I gotta say I do think it gets a bad rap. This is not a poorly riding car, it just doesnt feel like a big luxury sedan on the road. It feels more like an evolution of the GS, which was a very nice riding car just firmly damped. Notable too, the S and 7 I drove were on 19s, the LS was on 20s. All three cars were very quiet, along the same course S was 58 db, 7 58 db, LS 60 db (my LS460L measured 58 dB after). The LS500 has some wind noise at speed I noticed also when I drove it before, and some tire noise made it through. 7 Series has no wind noise, but did have some tire noise. S Class did a better job of quieting that (Both had the same Pirelli P7 Runflats) although that difference didn't show up in the dB readings. All 3 of these cars are on runflats, and I would replace them on all of them with regular tires which will undoubtedly improve the ride and noise.
Lease Value 1. 740, 2. LS500, 3. S560
Leases on the 740 are CHEAP. I mean, cheap. Their teaser lease is $699! Teaser lease on the S560 is $1,350! S450 is $1,050. Optioned out the way I would want it and zero drive off, I could probably lease a 740 for ~ $1,100. Thats a great deal for a car with an MSRP over $100k. LS500 doesnt have as attractive lease rates, and you'd be looking at a payment of around the same as the 7 Series but with a car with a $10k cheaper MSRP. S Class is the most expensive obviously. S560 optioned like I would want is $1,500-$1,600, a big gap. Finance rates are great on all, you can finance an S Class for 2.9%, whoever thought that would be possible?
So what's the winner? The S Class no doubt, but the financial side of it makes it a tough car to pony up for. The 7 Series is a very compelling value prospect...
Did this provide me any clarity in my decision? No...and I still don't find myself *wanting* any of these cars over what I have...so I'm still not really sure what I will do. Don't get me wrong, they are all great cars but they just didn't leave me driving home wishing I was driving one of them.
Looking forward to everybody's thoughts.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-03-20 at 09:12 PM.
07-03-20, 09:11 PM
#2
Lead Lap
Any supply constraints on any of the three? All i hear from dealers these days is Demands uber high, while supply is low...just ignore the discounts and unicorn deals as in indicator into the state of things.
07-03-20, 09:24 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
What surprised me is that despite the reviews and all lauding the 7 Series as having a very soft ride, I didn't think it rode especially well, certainly not as well as the S560 and in fact, I didn't think it rode that much better than the LS500. There was a graininess to its ride, it never felt like it was gliding along the pavement the way the S Class does, never felt that detachment from the road.
So what's the winner? The S Class no doubt, but the financial side of it makes it a tough car to pony up for. The 7 Series is a very compelling value prospect...
Did this provide me any clarity in my decision? No...and I still don't find myself *wanting* any of these cars over what I have...so I'm still not really sure what I will do. Don't get me wrong, they are all great cars but they just didn't leave me driving home wishing I was driving one of them.
Did this provide me any clarity in my decision? No...and I still don't find myself *wanting* any of these cars over what I have...so I'm still not really sure what I will do. Don't get me wrong, they are all great cars but they just didn't leave me driving home wishing I was driving one of them.
Have you compared an Audi A8 to them? We had an A8 thread not long ago, but I don't remember if you said you test-drove one.
Notable too, the S and 7 I drove were on 19s, the LS was on 20s.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-03-20 at 09:50 PM.
07-03-20, 09:32 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Have you compared an Audi A8 to them? We had an A8 thread not long ago, but I don't remember if you said you test-drove one.
That's Lexus's fault. The 20s should probably have been saved for the F-Sport version, with the standard LS having 18s or 19s.
07-03-20, 09:49 PM
#5
I know it's probably not on your shopping list, but I wish you got the chance to drive the 840i Gran Coupe after driving the LS 500 and give us your impressions. The LS gets a bad rap and sales suffered because the car is so fundamentally different than what it was before, and it sticks out like a sore thumb in this comparison due to being the least limo-like.
However, once you ignore the history of the LS name and embrace the car for what it is, it makes so much more sense to compare it to the 8 Series Gran Coupe and Porsche Panamera. They're massive GT cars that don't have much interior space, and focus on a sportier driving character, just like the new LS. So how would the LS fare against them, equipped with similar engines? I would be very interested to know. If Lexus wants the LS to be known by its sportier merits and driving character, those merits ought to be compared.
However, once you ignore the history of the LS name and embrace the car for what it is, it makes so much more sense to compare it to the 8 Series Gran Coupe and Porsche Panamera. They're massive GT cars that don't have much interior space, and focus on a sportier driving character, just like the new LS. So how would the LS fare against them, equipped with similar engines? I would be very interested to know. If Lexus wants the LS to be known by its sportier merits and driving character, those merits ought to be compared.
07-03-20, 10:00 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Both the 8 Series GC and Panamera are way superior cars dynamically compared to LS.
Lexus tried to do both Sport and Luxury with new LS - unfortunately it compromised the luxury part and didn’t put in enough Sport.
They got the formula down a lot better with LC500 and would have been awesome to get a 4door coupe of LC to battle 8series.
Lexus tried to do both Sport and Luxury with new LS - unfortunately it compromised the luxury part and didn’t put in enough Sport.
They got the formula down a lot better with LC500 and would have been awesome to get a 4door coupe of LC to battle 8series.
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07-03-20, 10:14 PM
#8
Both the 8 Series GC and Panamera are way superior cars dynamically compared to LS.
Lexus tried to do both Sport and Luxury with new LS - unfortunately it compromised the luxury part and didn’t put in enough Sport.
They got the formula down a lot better with LC500 and would have been awesome to get a 4door coupe of LC to battle 8series.
Lexus tried to do both Sport and Luxury with new LS - unfortunately it compromised the luxury part and didn’t put in enough Sport.
They got the formula down a lot better with LC500 and would have been awesome to get a 4door coupe of LC to battle 8series.
07-03-20, 10:28 PM
#9
Lead Lap
Doesn't seem to be. BMW is pro special order, so stock doesnt mean a whole lot. That deal was on one that would be a custom order. S Classes are the same way, although I don't believe you can order a 2020 anymore. Dealers seem to have several each. LS same as it has been for years, dealers have 2-3 in inventory and thats it, they'll have to find you one.
Couldn't figure out how to get to the pressure readout on the 7, so that could be the issue.
I've driven the new A8, just didn't again today. It drives great, rides great. I don't love the look or the feel of the interior though.
I pointed it out because I was surprised it rode as well as it did on the 20s. If I got one, I would get those 20s. They look so great, and none of the 19" wheels look good. On the S and 7 I would keep the 19s because they look fine, but I wouldn't go down to 18s.
Couldn't figure out how to get to the pressure readout on the 7, so that could be the issue.
I've driven the new A8, just didn't again today. It drives great, rides great. I don't love the look or the feel of the interior though.
I pointed it out because I was surprised it rode as well as it did on the 20s. If I got one, I would get those 20s. They look so great, and none of the 19" wheels look good. On the S and 7 I would keep the 19s because they look fine, but I wouldn't go down to 18s.
With 8K finance cash (i dont think it applies to lease but due check it out), I can only imagine the mfg to dealer cash on the hood to move LSes.
07-04-20, 06:13 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
07-04-20, 08:16 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I know it's probably not on your shopping list, but I wish you got the chance to drive the 840i Gran Coupe after driving the LS 500 and give us your impressions. The LS gets a bad rap and sales suffered because the car is so fundamentally different than what it was before, and it sticks out like a sore thumb in this comparison due to being the least limo-like.
However, once you ignore the history of the LS name and embrace the car for what it is, it makes so much more sense to compare it to the 8 Series Gran Coupe and Porsche Panamera. They're massive GT cars that don't have much interior space, and focus on a sportier driving character, just like the new LS. So how would the LS fare against them, equipped with similar engines? I would be very interested to know. If Lexus wants the LS to be known by its sportier merits and driving character, those merits ought to be compared.
07-04-20, 08:38 AM
#12
Lead Lap
I can’t believe you ranked the BMW cluster 2nd, I personally think it looks cheap and think they should have done a lot more with it since it’s brand new. However, one good thing is the HUD is very good so I never have to look at the cluster much.
07-04-20, 08:40 AM
#13
Lead Lap
07-04-20, 08:42 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Its still better than the cluster in the LS500 which is just a single square pod, essentially.
07-04-20, 08:43 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Oh much better. Its just that I'm totally unfamiliar with BMW controls so I don't automatically know how to get to those readouts like I do in a Lexus.