2021 LS500 arrives with new looks, self driving tech
#241
Lexus Fanatic
With all due respect, I don't buy the marketing argument....I think it is WAY overemphasized. First, it's not the job of automakers to spoon-feed the public, like a second-grade teacher, with all of the specs and technicalities of their latest products. Second, that's what their web-sites are for......with the listed-specs and Build-Your-Own features. Third, IMO, more people need to get off their cans and actually go to dealerships, auto shows, public displays, etc..... and see these vehicles for themselves. That can be done reasonably safely, even in an epidemic, with properly-worn masks and keeping a six-foot distance.
#242
Lexus Fanatic
We also over emphasize the importance a vehicle has to a consumer. We’re enthusiasts so we know everything about them and do our due diligence. Most consumers aren’t like that, even luxury consumers. They buy what they want and what’s convenient, don’t really look at other cars, tend to buy on brand and buy what they’ve always bought.
The only way to reach those consumers is to make an impression on them through marketing.
The only way to reach those consumers is to make an impression on them through marketing.
#243
Lead Lap
LS is on its own platform, TGNA-L and the only other model to share this in the Lexus stable would be the LC; both are low volume and unibody vehicles whose ROI is going to take a long long time since nothing else seems to be in the pipeline.
The idea that a 4Runner or even the Land Cruiser would be similar in cost to build as the LS is quite a stretch of the imagination. I do agree that the 4R, and LC are absolute cash cows (part legacy tooling, part crowd following, and part its BOF where margins tend to be greater).
In regards to marketing, you cant expect a person to buy something if they dont know that your product exists; just look at the commercials from the 90s on the LS, champagne challenge, the multiple TV ads, etc etc. Nowdays I have yet to see social media posts about the LS, or other more effective marketing campaigns that have become the new TV ad.
The idea that a 4Runner or even the Land Cruiser would be similar in cost to build as the LS is quite a stretch of the imagination. I do agree that the 4R, and LC are absolute cash cows (part legacy tooling, part crowd following, and part its BOF where margins tend to be greater).
In regards to marketing, you cant expect a person to buy something if they dont know that your product exists; just look at the commercials from the 90s on the LS, champagne challenge, the multiple TV ads, etc etc. Nowdays I have yet to see social media posts about the LS, or other more effective marketing campaigns that have become the new TV ad.
#244
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
just looked up the g90 for canada and it's 20-43 a month... https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/genesi...onthly-yearly/
#245
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Ok i looked for LS sales and in Q3 2020 according to this source, just 2 were sold in canada.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-c...ures-by-model/
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-c...ures-by-model/
#246
Lexus Fanatic
doesn't sound right, source?
just looked up the g90 for canada and it's 20-43 a month... https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/genesi...onthly-yearly/
just looked up the g90 for canada and it's 20-43 a month... https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/genesi...onthly-yearly/
Ok i looked for LS sales and in Q3 2020 according to this source, just 2 were sold in canada.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-c...ures-by-model/
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-c...ures-by-model/
Last year, GX, RC, GS, LC, LX, LS, Mirai, LX and IS combined for about 4000+ units sold in Canada. All Japan origin . Let’s say the average price is $70K factored all things....$283 million in gross sales. Now factor that these models are sold almost in 70 counties around the world. This is big money when calculated all together. Toyota Japan also sells the Land Cruiser 70 in Canada too. I did not include the 4R in there.
Lexus sold something like 800,000 units worldwide in 2019...up 8%. It all adds up.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-14-20 at 03:10 PM.
#247
This is possible, but it is also often the case that these flagships or halo vehicles make a total loss, and end up being subsidized by bread and butter Hyundai Elantras and Sonatas etc - just like a Lexus CL Coupe or 5LS sedan ends up being subsidized by RAV4's, Camries and Corollas.
#248
Lexus Champion
doesn't sound right, source?
just looked up the g90 for canada and it's 20-43 a month... https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/genesi...onthly-yearly/
just looked up the g90 for canada and it's 20-43 a month... https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/genesi...onthly-yearly/
#249
Lexus Fanatic
A G90 should have a large Korean domestic sales base. So selling anywhere is just gravy.
a key difference between G90 sales in Canada vs LS...G90 is not priced at more than $90K whereas a LS starts at $104K and goes to $134K. I don’t think Toyota loses money on LC or LS.
a key difference between G90 sales in Canada vs LS...G90 is not priced at more than $90K whereas a LS starts at $104K and goes to $134K. I don’t think Toyota loses money on LC or LS.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-14-20 at 03:22 PM.
#251
Lexus Champion
A G90 should have a large Korean domestic sales base. So selling anywhere is just gravy.
a key difference between G90 sales in Canada vs LS...G90 is not priced at more than $90K whereas a LS starts at $104K and goes to $134K. I don’t think Lexus loses money on LC or LS.
a key difference between G90 sales in Canada vs LS...G90 is not priced at more than $90K whereas a LS starts at $104K and goes to $134K. I don’t think Lexus loses money on LC or LS.
#252
Lexus Fanatic
How much do you think it really costs to product one LS unit?
I will say, I don’t think there will be a next generation LS.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-14-20 at 04:17 PM.
#253
Lexus Fanatic
We also over emphasize the importance a vehicle has to a consumer. We’re enthusiasts so we know everything about them and do our due diligence. Most consumers aren’t like that, even luxury consumers. They buy what they want and what’s convenient, don’t really look at other cars, tend to buy on brand and buy what they’ve always bought.
I remember a classic example of that, some years ago, when one of my neighbors came home with a new, dark reddish-brown Altima SE. (you might remember that color-option) He complained about it costing more than he had figured (who doesn't LOL?), and that the ride was firmer than he had expected. He wasn't even aware that he had bought an upper-trim line, sport-oriented version. I pointed out the larger alloy wheels, firmer suspension, revised steering gear, non-chrome trim, and asked him if he had looked at the base Altima, or one of the lower-line versions. He said no, he wasn't even aware that there are different trim levels, or that some versions had different wheels/suspensions/underpinnings. I mean, what can you say to that? I was as polite as I could be, wished him luck with it, and dropped the issue.
#254
Lead Lap
Developing a new platform, that two with a new engine and transmission is pushing billion dollars according to IHS. So for arguments, sake a low volume high price badge bearing LS is probably not going to be cheap. The idea here is to be a rolling showcase of what the brand is capable of, not really sales volume. The GA-L program probably will never achieve profitability imho, even with global sales into account, and mostly be subsidized by the sales of every other crossover they have in their stable.
Shipping as a cost to a company is such a minor expense due to the volume and possibly due to the fact that Toyota probably owns the shipping line themselves (Toyofuji).
The same story probably applies to Genesis (down to the shipping company since, yet again Hyundai).
The only companies that could achieve profitability in this space are of course the german 3 (of course who knows with their funny math skills).
Shipping as a cost to a company is such a minor expense due to the volume and possibly due to the fact that Toyota probably owns the shipping line themselves (Toyofuji).
The same story probably applies to Genesis (down to the shipping company since, yet again Hyundai).
The only companies that could achieve profitability in this space are of course the german 3 (of course who knows with their funny math skills).
Last edited by coolsaber; 11-14-20 at 04:36 PM.
#255
Developing a new platform, that two with a new engine and transmission is pushing billion dollars according to IHS. So for arguments, sake a low volume high price badge bearing LS is probably not going to be cheap. The idea here is to be a rolling showcase of what the brand is capable of, not really sales volume. The GA-L program probably will never achieve profitability imho, even with global sales into account, and mostly be subsidized by the sales of every other crossover they have in their stable.
Shipping as a cost to a company is such a minor expense due to the volume and possibly due to the fact that Toyota probably owns the shipping line themselves (Toyofuji).
The same story probably applies to Genesis (down to the shipping company since, yet again Hyundai).
The only companies that could achieve profitability in this space are of course the german 3 (of course who knows with their funny math skills).
Shipping as a cost to a company is such a minor expense due to the volume and possibly due to the fact that Toyota probably owns the shipping line themselves (Toyofuji).
The same story probably applies to Genesis (down to the shipping company since, yet again Hyundai).
The only companies that could achieve profitability in this space are of course the german 3 (of course who knows with their funny math skills).
It is very difficult for us to determine if the model is profitable or not; only the manufacturer would know, but they don't make that type of data public.
However, most probably these low volume halo vehicles are unprofitable.
This is why Fiat owns Ferrari and Maserati.
GM owned Lotus.
VW AG owns Bentley and Lamborghini.
BMW AG owns Rolls Royce.
Ford owned Jaguar Land Rover, before sold to Indian Tata.
Ford once owned Volvo before it was sold to the Chinese.
GM owned Saab.
TMC owns part of Mazda and Subaru etc.
Because the 5LS sales volume is so low, and because the much higher volume Japanese Domestic Market Toyota Crown sedan will be axed - there is a strong chance that the 6LS sedan will be axed just like Jill is saying.
However, just me, but I do not believe that sedans will be replaced by SUV's.
I believe that ICEV sedans are being phased out by ICEV CUV/SUV tall wagons, however down the track, full BEV sedans will be the first to re-incarnate back onto the market.
I believe that sedans will sell far more than coupes.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 11-14-20 at 11:47 PM.