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2021 LS500 arrives with new looks, self driving tech

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Old 11-15-20, 02:27 PM
  #286  
mmarshall
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
As for China, again Lexus is the only company that made their flagship car SMALLER inside yet LARGER outside.
True, but only, perhaps, on a technicality. The Acura TLX is now the flagship sedan only because the larger RLX has been discontinued. The new TLX is quite long outside, particularly in hood length, but not roomy inside at all for its length, even with FWD.
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Old 11-15-20, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AJT123
Styling. The pre refresh look dorky to me. Tied for ugliest LS IMO is the 95-97 and the 01-03 LS430 with those absolutely hideous 16 inch rims.

The 2004 refresh really REALLY upgraded the styling. Literally from headlight to taillight. The rest of the stuff I don’t care about as it’s still the same excellent car. People still gawk at my car, 01-03 models just blend in.
I will have to look. Never really paid attention l
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Old 11-15-20, 02:30 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
True, but only, perhaps, on a technicality. The Acura TLX is now the flagship sedan only because the larger RLX has been discontinued. The new TLX is quite long outside, particularly in hood length, but not roomy inside at all for its length, even with FWD.
EVERY Japanese sedan has stayed the same size or has been made smaller inside. Mazda, Honda and Corolla. This is the trend. It’s also to make room for a crossover which will replace all of the these sedans at some point.

I think the new Bentley sedan is smaller inside. Looks like the A pillars are shrunk down. Same with the new S class.
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Old 11-15-20, 02:38 PM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
True, but only, perhaps, on a technicality. The Acura TLX is now the flagship sedan only because the larger RLX has been discontinued. The new TLX is quite long outside, particularly in hood length, but not roomy inside at all for its length, even with FWD.
Thats a totally different situation. The TLX doesn’t all of a sudden compete because it’s the best car they make.
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Old 11-15-20, 02:49 PM
  #290  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I will have to look. Never really paid attention l
Lol IMO one of the best facelifts ever. So much more aggressive, the dual exhaust isn’t hidden it’s a nice dual setup. The older one looks frumpy at best and plain ugly at worst, even though it’s still a fabulous luxury car.







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Old 11-15-20, 03:40 PM
  #291  
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Totally agree, huge upgrade with the 430 refresh. We skipped the 2001 430 and bought the 400 out of the lease, but upgraded in 2004.
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Old 11-15-20, 04:18 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by Bob04
Anyway, back to the original subject. Anybody have faith in Lexus's self driving tech when they can't even seem to figure out a decent infotainment system after years of complaints?
with such dangerous mouse clicking infotainment system, the car better self drive when I use it.
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Old 11-15-20, 04:29 PM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by 703
with such dangerous mouse clicking infotainment system, the car better self drive when I use it.
The refresh LS has a touchscreen.
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Old 11-15-20, 06:24 PM
  #294  
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The 04 refresh was huge and probably the best LS ever made from build quality perspective. My dad had the 05 LS430 - it was built like a tank and was objectively a better car than the MB S500. Certainly that statement can’t be made about the current car.
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Old 12-12-20, 11:28 PM
  #295  
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Reviews are out from Car and Driver and CNET. Both reach the same conclusion: softer than before and easier to use infotainment, but not enough of a change to be competitive.

2021 Lexus LS500's Edgy Styling Belies Its Soft Side

A wild exterior and mild driving character combine for an incoherent package.

Large sedans are disappearing from some luxury brand lineups. Cadillac's CT6 and Lincoln's Continental are on their way out, while the Q70 was culled from Infiniti's showrooms after the 2019 model year. With the Acura RLX ending production after 2020, that leaves the Lexus LS as the only Japanese flagship we get stateside. The remaining big-baller sedans are from either Korea—from Genesis and Kia—or Europe.

This is the segment that the original LS, launched for the 1990 model year, was successful at disrupting. That car's clean lines, uncompromised quality, and stately appearance set the Lexus brand up for decades of success. This latest generation LS, launched in 2018, hasn't garnered the same praise. Which is why, just three years in, Lexus is making some changes in an attempt to boost the car's relevance (read: sales).

Welcome Updates

While updates to the exterior are subtle, the LS sports a redesigned front fascia, an updated front bumper, and a dark mesh insert for the grille. Drawing inspiration from the LC coupe and convertible, the LS adopts revised LED headlamps and a darker surround, while taillights swap chrome elements for glossy black. Similarly subtle updates to the interior include thicker padding for the armrests and seat cushions as well as revised steering wheel and center console buttons. An update to the active noise-cancellation feature more effectively drowns out road and engine noise, resulting in a quieter cabin per the automaker.
Lexus has mercifully updated the LS's infotainment system to include a touchscreen display, giving the driver and front passenger reprieve from the infuriatingly fussy touchpad controller on the center console. Unfortunately, the new system continues to run the older version of Lexus's software interface, which is neither as responsive nor as intuitive as rival systems in the Audi A8, the BMW 7-series, or the Mercedes-Benz S-class. The touchscreen was moved closer to the driver by a few inches relative to the prior screen's location, but we still found it tough to reach—forcing us to choose between leaning forward to jab at the screen or to continue to fuss with the console-mounted touchpad.The LS500's secondary functions are likewise too complicated for easy usage. For example, although Lexus added a shortcut button to the infotainment menu that controls the heated seats and steering wheel, the user must still interact with the infotainment system itself to access those features or adjust the temperature. A single physical button, mounted on the center console, the door, or even the seat itself, would be easier to use.

Identity Crisis

Like a middle-aged man donning a hypebeast wardrobe in a desperate attempt to appear more youthful than he is, the LS500's overtly aggressive appearance doesn't match what's underneath. Opting for the F Sport model exacerbates the issue, adding bigger dark-gray wheels, black grille inserts, sport seats, and a more aggressive front spoiler. Why?
The twin-turbo 3.4-liter V-6 is smooth and amply powerful. The last time we tested an LS500 F Sport, it was a 2018 model with all-wheel drive. That car delivered a 5.0-second zero-to-60-mph time and completed the quarter-mile in 13.4 seconds at 106 mph. Lexus recalibrated the car's 10-speed automatic transmission for 2021 to keep the engine spinning at a more optimal part of its powerband, and the company claims that a rear-wheel-drive LS500 is capable of getting to 60 mph in just 4.6 seconds. We couldn't verify that, since we were unable to make it to our test track during our brief time with the car.In Comfort and Normal driving modes, throttle response is muted and the LS delivers an effortless, easygoing type of luxury. Switching into one of the car's two sport modes (Sport S and Sport S+) dials in some sharpness, but the difference is trivial. The LS500 is a big softie. The steering is calibrated for the sedate life of a large luxury sedan, and the LS serves up a serene ride and a whisper-quiet cabin.

And it's a relative bargain. The cabin offers plush seating for both front and rear occupants, generous legroom, and high-end materials and features. Long-haul road trips would undoubtedly be dispatched with nary a whiff of fatigue. A well-equipped all-wheel-drive F Sport model, with the optional panoramic sunroof, 23-speaker Mark Levinson stereo system, and 24-inch head-up display rings in at $88,460—which is about where pricing begins for rivals from Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. While it is possible to run up a more expensive tab, the LS500 always represents a decent value proposition when compared to similarly equipped German competition. An all-wheel-drive Genesis G90 3.3T Premium, though, starts at $76,475. Genesis wants to be Lexus—not current Lexus but 1990 Lexus, rocking the foundations of the old-world luxury hierarchy.

On paper, the LS500 seems like it might have the recipe to rekindle that original LS400 mojo, but an exterior design so out of step with a car's driving dynamics leads to an incoherent overall picture. The touchscreen retrofit to the infotainment system didn't much help matters there, either. It might be time for the LS to finally abandon the value play and go for full-on extravagance. Lexus certainly knows how to do it. Just look at the LC coupe and convertible, both of which better exemplify the role of a flagship for the brand.

2021 Lexus LS 500 first drive review: Thanks for the touchscreen

A more intuitive infotainment interface headlines a number of changes to Lexus' full-size LS sedan.

The Lexus LS gets a whole bunch of updates for 2021. Most are minor -- added seat padding here, revised damper settings there -- and none of them really change the LS' positioning as a comfy-as-heck cruiser. Other changes, however, make a much bigger impact. And if there's one thing to truly celebrate, it's the addition of a touchscreen.

Let me put this into perspective: The major Achilles' heel in most new Lexus vehicles is its Remote Touchpad interface. It's meant to function like the trackpad on your laptop but its super sensitive to inputs making it a real pain in the *** to use while driving. On top of that, Lexus' Enform multimedia tech isn't intuitively arranged. Put it all together and you've got what is arguably the worst infotainment system from a mainstream automaker. Yes, really.

For 2021, the LS' 12.3-inch display adds touch capabilities and it's positioned closer to the edge of the dash, making it easier to reach. You'll still find Remote Touchpad hardware on the center console, because some people are masochists, I guess, but aside from the main menu hard button, you can leave this disaster alone.

It's not all perfect, though. The way you interact with the system itself might be better but Enform's menu structure is still kind of a mess. Unless you're married to using the embedded software, I recommend plugging in your phone and using full-screen Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Additionally, when it comes to scrolling, your natural instinct is probably to swipe up or down over a list. But that doesn't work. You have to touch the up or down arrows on the side of each list; if you try to scroll, the screen will just register your initial contact and select whatever's underneath your finger, which is frustrating.

Back to the good stuff: I'm thrilled to see the addition of a hard shortcut button on the console that brings up the screen for the heated/cooled seats and heated steering wheel settings. Previously, you had to open the clime control menu and scroll over to a separate area to turn the butt warmers on or off -- while using the stupid touchpad, too. I still don't really know why these controls aren't just buttons or toggles on the console, dash or doors like in pretty much every other car, but whatever, at least this helps.

Other changes inside the LS' cabin include softer materials on the armrests, new seat stitching and padding, a redesigned rear-seat control panel and a larger digital rear-view mirror. None of these are groundbreaking, but they also don't detract from an interior that's library-during-a-pandemic quiet and so, so plush. Outside, there are new triple-projector LED headlights, a slightly redesigned grille, a new silver paint option and... that's it. That's fine, though. The LS 500 continues to look great, inside and out -- svelte, sharp, large and in charge. The only thing I'd like to see (literally) is a higher-resolution backup camera.

In addition to the standard LS 500, the electrified LS 500h hybrid will be offered, though it won't hit dealers for a few more months. Lexus says its multi-stage hybrid system has new programming that actually improves acceleration, though I don't ever recall power delivery being a problem. The wonky mashup of a four-speed automatic plus a continuously variable transmission, on the other hand, yeesh.

As for the regular LS 500, it uses the same 3.5-liter twin-turbo V6 as before, with 416 horsepower and 442 pound-feet of torque. Both rear- and all-wheel drive are available, and the 10-speed gearbox has revised shift logic to make it a little smoother. Of course, the LS 500 was already a pretty serene cruiser, and even after driving a 2020 model back to back with a 2021, I can't say the transmission refresh is all that noticeable.

Beneath the skin, the 2021 LS has slightly different spring and damper settings, new stabilizer bars and lighter-weight control arms. Combined with the standard adaptive air suspension, the LS has an excellent ride quality in its default Normal drive mode, and Comfort is even cushier. Sport and Sport Plus modes are offered, but I don't recommend using them. Stiffer suspension settings and more aggressive transmission mapping don't jibe with the LS' ultra-smooth intentions. This isn't a sports car, and that's fine.

Bolstering those easygoing road manners are a number of standard driver-assistance systems, all bundled into the Lexus Safety System 2.0 Plus package. Pre-collision braking, lane-departure warning, full-speed adaptive cruise control and road sign assistance are all standard. Spend an extra $3,000 for the Safety System Plus A package (what a name) and you get active steering assist, curve speed reduction for the adaptive cruise control, lane-change assist, front cross-traffic alert and a few other goodies.

It's natural to lump the Lexus LS in with Europe's teutonic triplets, the Audi A8, BMW 7 Series and Mercedes-Benz S-Class. But the LS 500 is really a half-step behind that trio. The Germans offer more powertrain options, better cabin tech and more advanced safety features. But they also cost anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 more in base form, and that's before you pile on the options.

These days, the LS' biggest threat comes from Genesis. The updated G90 sedan is absolutely dynamite, and a base V6 version comes about $4,000 less than the LS 500. No, the G90's interior isn't quite as nice, but it has better infotainment tech and it comes fully loaded right from the get-go. This LS 500, on the other hand, starts at $77,025 including destination, but things like a panoramic sunroof, head-up display, digital rear-view mirror, Mark Levinson sound system, heated steering wheel, 20-inch wheels and other add-ons cost extra. The out-the-door price of this car is $98,080 while a top-spec Genesis G90 Ultimate with a V8 and all-wheel drive slides in just under $80,000. Food for thought.

Taken as a whole, the 2021 Lexus LS really isn't any different than before. These minor tweaks just make an already-solid luxury sedan even easier to live with.
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Old 12-13-20, 06:36 AM
  #296  
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I look forward to driving one. For me, the touchscreen is a big negative. The implementation ruins the beauty of the interior, and remote touch doesnt bother me. If it weren't for that tacked on touchscreen I probably would have at least driven a 2021 before pulling the trigger on the S560.
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Old 12-13-20, 06:48 AM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I look forward to driving one. For me, the touchscreen is a big negative. The implementation ruins the beauty of the interior, and remote touch doesnt bother me. If it weren't for that tacked on touchscreen I probably would have at least driven a 2021 before pulling the trigger on the S560.
I think it was just added reluctantly as the industry moved back to the touchscreens again. Id be interested to read your thoughts on a back to back drive now that you have moved to MB

...saw one the other day on the highway...I think the exterior looks pretty amazing. It has it own identity and looks quite unique.
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Old 12-13-20, 06:52 AM
  #298  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I think it was just added reluctantly as the industry moved back to the touchscreens again. Id be interested to read your thoughts on a back to back drive now that you have moved to MB

...saw one the other day on the highway...I think the exterior looks pretty amazing. It has it own identity and looks quite unique.
I will definitely drive one when there are some here locally to drive. Yeah, I like the way they look a lot. The next tripping point for me would be the V6. I just really prefer the V8, it feels so much better in a big car like this IMO. I tried to like the 740 and S450 and A6 V6 to save the money but once I drove the V8 version of each of those it was game over.

My issue isn't the touchscreen so much as the implementation. They should have redesigned the whole dash to accomodate the touchscreen and have it designed for it. The way the new one looks, it literally looks like an aftermarket screen popped into the spot where the OEM screen is.
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Old 12-13-20, 06:54 AM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
I will definitely drive one when there are some here locally to drive. Yeah, I like the way they look a lot. The next tripping point for me would be the V6. I just really prefer the V8, it feels so much better in a big car like this IMO. I tried to like the 740 and S450 and A6 V6 to save the money but once I drove the V8 version of each of those it was game over.
.
I know what you are saying....all the players went to V6 at least standard..and turbo....Jag was the brand that I think started it....I do believe the LS-F will be out with a new V8 but from everything I see, an optional V8 would have push the price up...it is too bad

I agree the dash should have been redesigned to accomodate it, they could have just left it the way it was.

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Old 12-13-20, 07:06 AM
  #300  
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Yeah and I totally get the 6 cyl standard, it just should have an option with a V8. I wouldnt want an LS-F, I just want a regular luxury line LS with a V8. I think the germans are really smart to offer a sport appearance without adjustments to the ride. For instance, I prefer the front of the LS460 F Sport, if I could have gotten that with the rest of what my LS460L had, I'd have paid for that. My S560 AMG Sport Line has all the AMG look, but the same suspension as the luxury line. BMW same way with M Sport.

Pricewise, my S was $123k, the 750 I was going to order was $119k with a lot more equipment than my S, but no sport package, adding M Sport wound have made it the same price but better equipped. If they could offer an LS well equipped but not maxed out, like what they sell now for about $92k with the V6 for say $105k, I think people would buy that. You're still way cheaper than the Germans, an S560 optioned like mine without the AMG Sport line would be $117k. The V8 LS would be $12k cheaper and much better equipped. Then that TTV8 engine could be used in the LC, upcoming new LX, and other rear drive platforms they will have. I wouldn't have thought $105k for a TTV8 LS500 was out of line at all.

With the screen, note they didnt make the LC500 a touchscreen!
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