Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Toyota Supra rumored to get BMW M3 engine in 2023

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-13-20, 10:38 AM
  #1  
Hoovey689
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (16)
 
Hoovey689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 42,305
Received 125 Likes on 83 Posts
Default Toyota Supra rumored to get BMW M3 engine in 2023

200-unit run would be a final hurrah before Supra dies in 2025



In car design, the term "power bulge" originally referred to a swollen area of the hood necessary to create clearance for an engine component or a larger, more powerful engine. Now the term could mean a mere cosmetic flourish to make a car look like it's harnessing potent go. The 2020 Toyota Supra features a slight cosmetic bulge. A whopper of a report in Japan's Best Car magazine (translated), via Motor1, says that come 2023, the Supra's hood could get the kind of power bulge its buyers would love. That year is apparently when BMW's M division will send Toyota 200 units of the 3.0-liter twin-turbo S58 engine for a special-edition Supra. What's even stranger than all this is that the way Best Car has written its report (via Google Translate, naturally): Information on the engine export program came from Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada himself.

The S58 is right now being spread throughout the compact M lineup, next to appear in the M3 and M4 after debuting on the X3 M and X4 M. If we go back exactly one year, last July Autocar spoke to M division boss Markus Flasch about the chance of an M3-powered Supra. Flasch emphasized the small chance of such an eventuality, calling the hypothetical "an interesting idea, if unlikely for now. It would be a lot for us to give away, you might say." Stressing the slim possibility, he added that his M team might not be happy about sharing its newest piece of work, before asking, "Why would we sell it before we had chance to use it ourselves in all the places we plan to?" Still, he didn't rule it out, tempering all of his previous doubts with, "But I'd never say never."

The M division has only once sold its engines to a third party, when the S70 V12 traveled from Munich to Woking, England, to serve in the McLaren F1.

By 2023, though, the S58 will have been installed in all the places M has planned — at least, in all the places we know of so far. According to the magazine, execs at M resisted, but Tada convinced the Germans to relent. It's also likely that by 2023, more powerful versions of the S58 will have appeared, so the Supra could get the 'regular old' inline-six. At the moment, that means output of either 473 horses and 442 pound-feet of torque, or 503 horsepower and 442 lb-ft when flicked into Competition guise. Either one would make a healthy upgrade over the 382 hp and 368 lb-ft in the current Supra, figures produced by BMW's B58 3.0-liter turbocharged straight-six that was the basis for the S58. The grunt gap won't be so large in three years, though, Tada telling Autoblog last year, "With a sports car, the promise is to offer more performance with each additional version. And we can expect additional versions pretty much every year."

Another odd bit in the Best Car piece is that Toyota will apparently hook the S58 to the seven-speed M-DCT transmission. The present M2 Competition uses that gearbox, being the last compact M in line to switch to the new regime. The new M cars moving to the S58, like the X3 M, X4 M, and coming M3 and M4, employ an eight-speed M Sport Steptronic torque-converter automatic as standard. If any of Best Car's information is true, it's possible that Toyota sticking with a hand-me-down gearbox helped Tada convince M to open up the storehouse. The coming M3 and M4 will include the option for a manual transmission in lesser-powered trims, but it's best to forget about a stickshift in a Supra, if only to forestall any disappointment.

The 200-unit production cap for a potentially 503-hp Supra might also have benefited the case — to stress, again, if any of this is true. A special edition dovetails with Best Car's trifecta of jaw-droppers, this being the penultimate line in the article: "The Supra GRMN, which will appear at least in 2023, will be the final edition of the current Supra." Tada told Australia's Motoring last year that he won't develop a hybrid Supra because of the compromises required, which would put the Supra outside of Toyota's global strategy to develop an electrified version of every model by 2025. An M-ified high-dollar Supra would ensure a bang instead of a whimper before the coupe goes out.

Best Car asked about a price of around 12 million yen, a little more than $112,000 U.S. That's not apples-to-apples for a market comparison, since Japan's 3.0-liter Supra starts at the U.S. equivalent of $69,399, and our entry-level Supra 3.0-liter begins at $50,990. If this unicorn Supra gets built and if it comes our way, though, a bulging premium should be expected, because with great power comes great MSRP.
Source
Hoovey689 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 08:20 AM
  #2  
EXE46
Lead Lap
 
EXE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Sofla
Posts: 581
Received 26 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

I truly hope BMW doesn't offer the S58 to Toyota, it's bad enough they did with the B58.
EXE46 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 10:54 AM
  #3  
RNM GS3
Lexus Test Driver
 
RNM GS3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 7,231
Received 70 Likes on 52 Posts
Default

BMW needs $$$.

Finally drove new “Supra” and not impressed.

It definitely doesn’t drive like a BMW. The steering is very loose even in Sport mode, actually not very direct. There is notable pause from when you turn the wheel to when car reacts. Seating position is not great, the NAV screen is pointed at a weird angle away from driver. The seat doesn’t seem to go low enough and the low windshield view makes it seem your sitting on top of the car.

Engine noise / response - Exhaust has burbles when you lift the gas but overall engine noise is minimal. There is more throttle delay than what im used to in my BMWs - another Toyota tuning factor here i think.

The car feels and drives bigger than what it is imo.

My BRZ feels like a go cart compared to this thing and much more fun to drive as long as you don’t mind being slow.

The exterior styling is very good. Minimal wheel gap, car looks like a sport car and rear view is menacing. I also think its a good value if you just want to go really fast. Personally i would buy a used M4 or new M2 as those cars are better than this Supra. But those that love the name and always wanted one because of Fast&Furious - well your dream car is here.
RNM GS3 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 01:23 PM
  #4  
EXE46
Lead Lap
 
EXE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Sofla
Posts: 581
Received 26 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

^
That's shocking, B58/ZF8 in my car is sublime and thus I had assume it would be the same or even better in a much lighter chassis than my RWD M340i. Although, i hear the B58 in the early supra is not the same as what's in my car ( engine is what's in the X5 version) hence the lower output. However for 2021 Supra will get the same updated B58 that's in the M340i.

PS. M2C for me as well if I wanted a small performance car.
EXE46 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 04:25 PM
  #5  
RNM GS3
Lexus Test Driver
 
RNM GS3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 7,231
Received 70 Likes on 52 Posts
Default

^
The car is fast but the initial inputs are not BMW feeling.
The tuning of the car was definitely done by Toyota as Tada said but its more of a GT car meaning delayed throttle, steering etc.

I thought it would feel like a BMW but it’s definitely different.
RNM GS3 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 05:04 PM
  #6  
sivikvtec
Intermediate
 
sivikvtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: KY
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Just give this stupid thing a new front bumper and a manual transmission.

4cyl, 6cyl, 3cyl who cares. Changing the engine isn’t going to get enthusiasts attention.
sivikvtec is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 05:10 PM
  #7  
Och
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

I might get the Supra in near future, if the world doesn't end. Don't care about delayed steering or any of that crap - all cars feel artificial and delayed anyway now. Just want it for the cool factor, couldn't care about the trivial nitpicking. Great looks, 300+hp, 2 seater, legendary name - what can possibly be cooler?

Maybe I'm getting old.
Och is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 08:59 PM
  #8  
RNM GS3
Lexus Test Driver
 
RNM GS3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 7,231
Received 70 Likes on 52 Posts
Default

^
I would love to hear your thoughts since you have an M2.

0% financing and large discounts are very intriguing thats why I checked it out. It doesn’t feel or drive special though.
RNM GS3 is offline  
Old 07-14-20, 09:12 PM
  #9  
Och
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RNM GS3
^
I would love to hear your thoughts since you have an M2.

0% financing and large discounts are very intriguing thats why I checked it out. It doesn’t feel or drive special though.
Well, I have the M2 and I also used to have m235 before the M2, so the Supra is probably more comparable to the m235. There is a pretty big difference in how these two cars drive and feel, but it just doesn't matter to me all that much. I gave my M2 to my daughter back in December when I was taking her X5 for repairs, and she loves it so much that I might as well let her keep it and I'll probably go with the Supra when or if the pandemic stops.

The Supra with M3 engine will probably get a lot more M goodies, probably becoming essentially a true M car.

Last edited by Och; 07-14-20 at 10:00 PM.
Och is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 07:54 PM
  #10  
MelF1fan
Driver
 
MelF1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Most modern BMWs honestly don't feel like "BMW"s anymore in the sense of the old driver's Saloons that help create the so called Ultimate Driving Machine moniker.
I say this coming from having both E46 and E90 3 series with sportpacks. The M version of each especially the E46 were another step forward with the feedback etc.

I had decent time behind the wheel of M2C as well as M5C and M4 the M2C is the closest to coming to that classic M feeling and the only current BMW as such.
The other M cars not so much and BMW as a whole doesn't feel special anymore. Don't get me wrong.. they still have great performance / the engines and brakes etc.. but it all kinda feels disconnected nowadays.
Most all cars feel more similar than they did a decade ago.

A 'Supra' however with the latest version of an S58 would be sweet as well as M-Diff added - why not? The reality did not match the hype of this new version Supra in my opinion. It's a different kind of car, however, the S58 would only help it quite a bit. (I'm more intrigued now with the C8 or even waiting to see if the coming Nissan 400z is something worth waiting for over the current Supra)
MelF1fan is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
adpock
Car Chat
1
06-30-15 01:11 PM
Harbinger
Car Chat
11
12-16-07 08:39 PM
O. L. T.
Car Chat
16
01-30-04 06:33 PM



Quick Reply: Toyota Supra rumored to get BMW M3 engine in 2023



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:18 PM.