Toys4RJill

This has to be one of the strangest concepts I have ever seen released. I think it appears this will get the body on frame treatment.

FrankReynoldsCPA

Body on Frame has been confirmed for at least a year or two. These Baja vehicles, however, rarely share a ton in common with the production version.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

^^ Yup it's on the Ranger's T6 platform

tex2670

So you think they pick a random date based on the car show calendar, rather than pick a date when they believe the car will be close to production ready? Seems silly to introduce a car (that's not a concept) long before it's ready.

mmarshall

Who says it's still long before it's ready? Those are your words, not mine. Ford has been working on this vehicle for at least three years (possibly more), given all the planning, preparation of the plant, plant-negotiations with the UAW, and vehicle-testing that were involved. So, no, what I said was not silly at all. And it's apparently ready enough for them to have a special Baja version of it. What's more important...the Baja race, or many thousands of public sales that are waiting?

tex2670

You think the Baja version is production ready? It's a mock-up for marketing purposes.

Who cares how long Ford has been working on it? That is not a measure of when the car is ready to be introduced. Car companies carefully choose when they are ready to introduce their vehicles. I think it's fair to assume that they choose the car show based on 2 main factors: (1) the importance of the show, and (2) if the car is nearly ready. It's pretty simple; if they think the car won't be ready until mid/late 2020, it just may not be ready for the '19 LA Show, even if some customers are antsy to see the actual car revealed. Rushing the car out for introduction is a much worse mistake than delaying to get it right.

Toys4RJill

I see your point. There is definitely something holding back the Bronco. If it is supposedly built off the Ranger platform, then it should easier to put together. Taking this long seems to be at odds as the SUV market is hit right now. How long they have been working on it, I don’t know but if it was three years, then it should probably be released.

Maybe this new Bronco was slated for Mexican production and Ford has had to rethink that. I dunno.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Nothing holding it back. Ford is dotting i's and crossing t's. Just because it borrows on the Ranger's platform doesn't mean it's easy. The Bronco will be a unique BOF SUV with excellent off-roading prowess. The fact they are entering the Bronco R prototype in the Baja 1000 means they are calibrating suspension and lessons learned that will translate into the production model. Ford has already announced a Spring unveiling, so folks need to hold tight nbd.

mmarshall

First of all, The Baja is not a production version. Second, I never said (or implied) that it was. My point, though, was that if they had enough time to get that version ready (which will not make them much money), one would think that they haven't exactly been sitting on their rears being the bread-and-butter, money-making version ready.

That part is at least partly true. Typically (and especially with Ford) the big-show version is a pre-production model that is sometimes just displayed on the turntable (or on the floor) and not even unlocked so you can at least look inside. Ford tends to be very strict about that....GM to a lesser extent, as they will sometimes at least open the doors.

mmarshall

Given the notorious toughness of the Baja course, that also suggests (but by no means confirms) the future possibility of a Raptor version.

Good. That's within the time frame that I was expecting. But I guess that means we probably won't see it at the L.A., Washington, Baltimore or Chicago shows....sounds like the most likely unveiling will be at New York in April. Detroit, starting next year, is delayed until June.

tex2670

Sorry, I don't agree with your logic. It's easy for Ford to slap a crude Bronco "body" on a baja vehicle, and use it for marketing purposes to get fans like yourself excited about the product. But if I were a Ford designer, I'd want the consumer version as close to perfect before the camo comes off. I'm sure that higher execs are putting plenty of pressure on the product team to get it to market--but again, their a$$es are on the line too if they screw up the intro and roll out.

Patience young Padawan.

mmarshall

As basically a sedan person, I'm not so much a Bronco fan as just waiting for it to make a chump of the Blazer.....which I am fairly confident it is going to do.

However, there are some cracks in my attraction to sedans....Lincoln has (almost) got me sold on the new Corsair, if it holds up reasonably well and avoids the Aviator QC problems.

Don't know about that. They certainly survived the QC disaster at the Chicago plant on the new Explorer/Aviator rollout....though, of course, they could be fired (?) tomorrow. We'll see.

Thank you, but I am neither young or a Padawan. In the auto field, I stopped being a Padawan in my 20s....to an extent, even before that.

But, of course, none of us knows everything in this business.....the day we start to think we do, we become at risk for arrogance.

Carmaker1

To correct the source (NOT OP), Bronco was launched in September 1965 with an I6, not in 1966 literally. It's funny how the model year system was created in USA, yet so many Americans (esp. " journalists") still cannot make sense of it 6-7 decades later. I've had the mind to buy out one of these obtuse outlets and restore ground up, but why waste my net on that?

I've never understood what a 25 year old murder chase/case has to do with the U725, other than cliche nostalgia over a shared nameplate. The lineage is OG Bronco, not the 70s cost-cutting experiment that the F-Series based vehicle was, retained with moderate improvements over a 19 year period (only 1 ground up redesign in September 1979). These would be more up that alley anyway.




If not for Lord Alexander Trotman (Ford CEO) wanting a change in nameplate for the UN93 program from Bronco to "Expedition" (to echo Explorer) and canceling the 2-door prototype body in 1994, the above would have relevance. Today it just doesn't and keeps creating false rumor mills, to expect a full-size Bronco out of the U725.

Ford is not quite nostalgic about anything OJ, in fact quite the opposite, even if it had no bearing on the cancellation of the nameplate. This is hearkening back to pre-1977, as if the F-Series Bronco never existed. Day 1 1965 meets Bronco II (Ranger connection), but with better execution in engineering. That is corporate Ford intent, considering many in Dearborn cringe at the mention of OJ. Plainly bad press.

Well, I think you'll be pleased. Definitely not the base offering. Think Bronco II powertrain lineup, but modernized.

Well, something along those lines...a rock monster .

Not quite. U725 shepherded the heavy revision of the existing T6 architecture derivative P375N (2018-2022), which itself formed from the Australian originated P375 global T6 Ranger launched in 2011 as a MY2012. The P375 and U375 Everest, do not have the capacity for a V configuration engine. Not to mention a few other issues, Dearborn had to fix or request to be done down under...

This required major (additional) changes under hood and much more, which will debut in a few months, appear in Winter 2021 on dealer lots, after production begins December 4, 2020 at Wayne Plant. The next generation P703 Ranger will benefit from the new U725 Broncos changes to T6, when it launches in roughly 24 months. This is a major reason why the USDM Ranger does not have a Ranger Raptor. P375N was not adapted for P375 Ranger Raptor modifications, so therefore it cannot be sold stateside.

The U725 program is currently at the internal engineering completion stage, which is split into two. Legally I am not going to risk disclosing which stage, because that is in serious violation. PE and FE are both of them, break it down. Production is 13 months away. Verification prototypes (VP1, VP2, etc) have been built since April, but testing in high security or at night, away from actual spy photographers (not drip tease fakes). Because of the Mach E and Bronco R, they have been withheld from publicity. As well as China market copycats, who can quickly launch an offshoot within 15 months of any insight they get.

The U725 design was final selection (FAA) about a year and half ago, shortly after the official March 2018 teaser. Design freeze (FDJ) was last autumn, so it was designed much long ago. It is ready, but being guarded heavily, just like the CX727 Mach E and Bronco CUV (CX430)

Well, the U725 program started under Mark Fields in 2015. He made mistakes, but many good decisions, which are bearing fruit now, like the RWD Explorer and Aviator in 2014. Plus convincing Al, to slightly kickstart a revitalization of Lincoln and bringing back unibody RWD products in the early 2010s, before he himself took the reins.

All his pet projects were put into motion (with a multi-billion dollar investment into Lincoln), as he took over in 2014. He got kicked because of allowing global products to get stale, and of course, WS/SH concerns, plus some other "issues".

Ironically it was Alan Mulally who first saw the MY2016 Taurus on stretched CD4 (Fusion) in late 2012, but cancelled the MY2016 Taurus redesign in 2013, after a spring 2013 consumer focus group clinics rejected the final design. Thus, Volvo-derived D3 Taurus (2009-19) was kept and new Taurus went to China for 2016.

2016 Lincoln MKS final look was approved in early 2013, staying the course and being renamed the 2017 Lincoln Continental (D544). This product was a crossing of executive eras. Between Lincoln's redheaded stepchild days of Mulally and Fields' priority ONE days, to restore it. Look at the newest Lincolns and you'll get it.

The Lincoln Continental is merely the new MKS, on CD4. It was not developed as a Continental. A new Town Car on Aviator's CD6 was in development for MY 2021, cancelled in 2017 by Hackett. As was a new MKZ, while the Fusion went to C2. You can see what happened now to sedans. I digress, back to Ford trucks.

I said last year (and early this year), that the P702 F-Series had just completed the design phase, as had the U725 Bronco program. Also mentioned in late December and early January 2019, P703 Ranger was in the process of final design selection. It fell on deaf ears in general, because what people cannot see, they just don't believe. And also, that their styling freezes were so recent, that they were not going to be shown at any 2018 dealer conferences. That the dealer body would privately see these vehicles in 2019, followed by the public in 2020.

Indeed I have been proven right once again, as by unauthorized P703 clay proposal photography leaking out from a clinic shortly after my commentary. U725 was teased as a shadow behind new C2-based compact Bronco (CX430), P702 F-150 was finally shown to dealers earlier this year and first units were built April 22 at pilot plant, ahead of MY 2021 launch.

Dealers in March, were shown the new U725 Bronco, which looks very similar to the R concept and a modern rendition, of the original late 1965 namesake. I have seen the vehicle quite a bit and other upcoming Fords obviously. Why? I won't get into it, but many have complained about it not being "spied" ad nauseam like the new P702 and it pretty much was a case of corporate, taking a page from Toyota (no sight of new product until WE decide it). They are coming into camo...

Launch is in Winter 2021. I mentioned this 9-10 months ago, as mid-late January 2021. Can easily be February or March 2021, based on slow rollout of revised T6 P375N 2019 Ranger from October 2018 to mid-2019 (released first week Jan 2019).


No, just no. It is very simplistic to come to that conclusion, because the P375N USDM Ranger as it is, has little to no bearing on the U725 Bronco itself. On quite a few Bronco oriented discussions I've had to point this out. The T6 architecture has been heavily modified to accommodate the U725 and upcoming P703 2022/2023 Ranger, plus other products.

It has not been easy to put together like you are trying to claim. Genuine plans for a new Bronco date back 5 years. The final commitment to a true to its roots Bronco, was approved in 2016 with Job 1 launch date of July 2020. That fell behind a little, as major decisions started being made in 2018.

Not only did it require a totally new tophat, but also a practically all new T6. How new? Cannot discuss that.

Mexican production has never been a consideration so I don't know where that theory came from, unlike the case with the smaller C2-bases CX430 (Escape relation).

, actually engineering completion phase is underway and will wrap in several weeks, since production starts next December. I can PM you with more details, but not so much in public view.(Debate Forum would favor such privacy as well) You got mostly right, but the P375 is old news in general. 2023 Ranger has been frozen for production now, but you won't see it for awhile. It will launch in 2 years, borrowing from U725 heavily.

You got it Tex, but the design department has nothing to do with U725 core development anymore. That ended last year of course, with only small "support" aspects much of this year. From final styling approval to early 2021 launch, will come just under 3 years. Are key people trying to rush it in some ways? Yes, but quality must win out with this one. The new 2020 Explorer was a 2015-2016 design, from small clays and CADs, into 1:1 FAA stage mockup approved in 2016 under Mark Fields. Problems still happened anyway with first units built from May 6th on.

These have to be done very well.

FrankReynoldsCPA

Based on what you've told us, it sounds like the Bronco(and the next gen Ranger) will likely be offered with V6 ecoboosts and that the only reason the current gen Ranger doesn't have one is because it doesn't fit in the T6 derived chassis?

Carmaker1

Yes 111111