I find it interesting that foreign companies are expanding their manufacturing here and domestic companies are moving offshore. Makes it all the more clear the issue is really the UAW.

 

Disagree. In BMW's case (as I mentioned above), it was the German unions and the country's policies, which make what American UAW workers earn look cheap in comparison. Production of the Audi TT, some years ago, was also driven out of Germany, into Hungary, for that reason. High German taxes also didn't help.

 

BMW plants aren’t UAW plants. Neither are Toyota or Honda or Mercedes or Nissan plants. The proof is in the pudding, companies who employ non union labor are expanding manufacturing here, and those that employ union labor are scaling it back. That’s correlation is not a coincidence.

 

Whether they are UAW or not, my statement still holds......American labor, on the average, unionized or not, is cheaper than in Germany.

Of course it's not. Greedy companies simply don't want to deal wth unions....never did, probably never will. And, if applicable, I would rather not deal wth those greedy companies myself. That's one reason (among many) why I'm buying a vehicle made in a unionized Korean plant rather than a non-union Chinese sweat-shop.

Of course, with some things (like probably 90% of the merchandise in Walmart and Target) it is difficult to avoid Chinese-made goods.

And, of course, I also respect the will of the workers themselves. Some of them have been given a chance to vote on the issue, and have turned down unionization...I respect that decision.

 

Its not about being "greedy" its about controlling costs. Every business has to control costs in order to be successful. American workers in non UAW plants for BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, etc etc seem to be pretty happy and well paid. What those companies don't have is the noose of the UAW around their necks and their totally one sided, short term focused negotiating position.

Whether or not labor here is cheaper than in Germany, if those companies had to deal with the UAW in order to build cars here...I bet they wouldn't.

If you want companies to manufacture products here, you have to make it worth their while to do so.

We've been through this before, but you don't have to shop at WalMart and Target, you can choose to pay more for clothes that are not made in China.

The issue is not the concept of a union, its the UAW specifically. Some unions are better than others, the UAW has always been rife with fraud, ties to organized crime, a history of short sightedness and forcing deals to be made that were ultimately self defeating for their members,

 

With all due respect, that's where you and I disagree and part company. A company can cut costs without being greedy and biting the hands of the workers that feed that company, and without whose labor that company probably wouldn't exist. One need only look at wages/working conditions in China and other non-unionized countries in Asia (A.K.A. part of the Third-World) and their sweet shops to see the effects of greed and excessive cost-cutting. And, if you want to see something even more outrageous, consider the fact that some foreign companies are actually moving out of China because they are finding even cheaper labor in places like Pakistan and India. Greed knows no bounds.

 

Anyhow, we can argue back and forth all day long about wages, plants, and counties, but, at least for now, American-market Encore GXs and Trailblazers (the thread-topic) will come from Korean unionized plants....that's a given. And, although I clearly would rather give my money to American or Canadian workers, in my book, giving it to workers in an allied country to us is far preferable than to China.

 

The German companies didn't come to the United States to be close to cheap American labor that was a secondary reason. They came to access NAFTA which is a giant three country barrier to entry to the States, Canada and Mexico.....BMW, VW or MB all build in the south to be close to supply chains as well as Mexico where lots of part for the auto industry are coming from....Now there are plants all over the Mexico and a few German plants in southern US...the same reason is why Toyota built their Texas plant...to access Mexican parts and super cheap labor and the supply chains

This is very true. Any of these auto makers could in theory employ the UAW to make their cars, but they don't.....I think Toyota did for a while with their California plant they once their joint-venture, it was more of a test.

I guarantee anyone on here that if UAW or Unifor was to unionize any of the American Toyota plants or the two in Canada. Toyota would close the plant

 

Wrong. BMW came here for the same reason that Audi shifted TT production from Germany to Hungary....the enormous salary and benefits that German workers get. Also, companies sometimes get tax benefits for relocating here.


Toyota built its truck-plant in San Antonio because of the immense popularity of trucks in Texas, hoping to cash in on at least part of that enormous market. A secondary reason was the location of Toyota of America HQ in Plano, TX, just a couple of hundred miles away.....having been run out of California because of that state'e insane level of taxes and regulations.

That would cost Toyota enormously in PR. Not only would the U.S./Canadian governments, but a good part of the pubic itself would look upon it as extortion....and sales would suffer.

 

The problem lies with both the UAW and the big 3 corporate greed/mismanagement and also politicians/US taxes/regulations in some cases/areas.

UAW has too many demands when it comes to benefits, retirement, etc. Base pay is not the big issue, it is all the other things that make it cost so much to build cars in the US labor wise. Strikes are devastating

Corporate Greed/mismanagement is also a problem with US car companies themselves, their execs/upper management get astronomical salaries, golden parachutes when they retire/leave, live high on the hog, they have/had fleets of private luxury jets they don't need, had shady ties in some cases and it cost the big 3 a lot of money just in their enormous salary/perk/lifestyle demands over the years. They made horrible business decisions, ordered engineers to design cars/engines/parts as cheaply as possible, relegated many lines to rentals, had no real vision or pride in what was churned out of factories especially when faced with tough completion from Japan/Europe, decided it was better for them to offshore plants/parts to save money instead of figuring ways of doing it in the US as economically as much as possible and had no real lobbying/negotiating power/skills with politicians to ease up on taxing/regulating them and what the consequences would be.

 

They came here because it benefited them to do so. If you want more companies to manufacture products here, we have to make it so it benefits them to do so. The UAW is a big reason why it benefits US carmakers to stop making cars in the US.

 

While I'm not a moderator, seems this thread (me included) is getting too bogged down in union-vs.-corporation arguments instead of the thread-topic vehicle.

 

This bears repeating. It's not all that complicated.

 

Still is a fact, though, that Detroit's Big Three made their best profits (1950s/1960s) during a time that the UAW was at is peak and, relative to today, eating the highest wages (and most benefits) for their employees. Of course back the, the profits were also spread more evenly.....you generally didn't have the CEOs and high execs making several hundred times what the factory employees made. That's part of where today's greed comes in.

History showed that, when the UAW declined, the Big Three declined along with them.

 

That was a different era. The UAW is built for a different era is the issue.