ES 250 is back for 2021! AWD, updated Hybrid, and Black Line Edition as well
08-23-20 | 03:22 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,751
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
I wonder what they will do..
I just read the Avalon review at Autoblog...it is not that terrible as some say
t
Of course. I think the goal is Lexus to offer a awd offering without increasing the price....this does not cost more than the V6...adding awd to the V6 would have just increased the MSRP and conventional offerings in the past have added awd on top as and extra cost feature..that didn't work out for Lincoln or Buick and their offering in this segment are cancelled. I applaud Toyota for doing it....I do agree that a turbo or a V6 would be nice, but not an increase in MSRP.. I also don't believe for a second that Toyota could not fit the V6 in there with AWD
I just read the Avalon review at Autoblog...it is not that terrible as some say
On paper, 205 horsepower is not a lot to motivate a full-size sedan. However, at 3,571 pounds, Avalon only weighs about 40 more pounds than the comparable Camry. So really, if this four-cylinder is sufficient in the mid-sizer for the vast majority of buyers (a mere 6% choose a V6), one should assume the Avalon's comparably less-than-brisk performance will be perfectly acceptable as well. In fact, during our drive around Park City, Utah, the Avalon actually pulled off the trick of feeling quicker than the Camry thanks to a clear advantage in sound deadening between the engine bay and cabin. The engine doesn't sound like it's straining as much, creating the impression of greater strength. Is it an illusion? Sure is, but there's nothing wrong with taking the Blue Pill once in a while.
mportantly, by weighing roughly what many compact SUVs do (the RAV4 is a little bit less), it's not like customers considering multiple all-wheel-drive vehicle choices will find the new four-cylinder Avalon to have a distinct performance disadvantage. Actually, it'll be quieter than those SUVs, too,
mportantly, by weighing roughly what many compact SUVs do (the RAV4 is a little bit less), it's not like customers considering multiple all-wheel-drive vehicle choices will find the new four-cylinder Avalon to have a distinct performance disadvantage. Actually, it'll be quieter than those SUVs, too,
Of course. I think the goal is Lexus to offer a awd offering without increasing the price....this does not cost more than the V6...adding awd to the V6 would have just increased the MSRP and conventional offerings in the past have added awd on top as and extra cost feature..that didn't work out for Lincoln or Buick and their offering in this segment are cancelled. I applaud Toyota for doing it....I do agree that a turbo or a V6 would be nice, but not an increase in MSRP.. I also don't believe for a second that Toyota could not fit the V6 in there with AWD
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-23-20 at 03:35 PM.
08-23-20 | 03:37 PM
#62
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,135
Likes: 66
From: N/A
Turbo 4 cylinders are the norm for every luxury brand that isn't Lexus, even in the new TLX. If you compare performance and efficiency to other turbo 4-AWD setups, the Toyota 4 cylinder is less powerful, less refined, and barely more fuel efficient. It has no real advantages whatsoever other than being proven technology due to its age.
I'm also growing doubtful that Lexus will modify the engine much for the ES, because this setup will likely only be sold in North America like the Avalon and Camry. One market is not enough to justify making big changes to an entire engine.
I'm also growing doubtful that Lexus will modify the engine much for the ES, because this setup will likely only be sold in North America like the Avalon and Camry. One market is not enough to justify making big changes to an entire engine.
08-23-20 | 03:39 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,751
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
The 4 cylinder engine used in this awd set up has already been used in world markets for Lexus ES since 2018
08-23-20 | 05:38 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,374
Likes: 2,793
From: Maryland
08-23-20 | 05:41 PM
#66
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 807
Turbo 4 cylinders are the norm for every luxury brand that isn't Lexus, even in the new TLX. If you compare performance and efficiency to other turbo 4-AWD setups, the Toyota 4 cylinder is less powerful, less refined, and barely more fuel efficient. It has no real advantages whatsoever other than being proven technology due to its age.
.
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the only acceptable use of the engine is with the hybrid drive, which you have it in a 300h and people can live with it.
yes there might be other markets with the es250, but they are emerging markets like China where people don’t know much about what Lexus refinement should be.
08-23-20 | 06:00 PM
#67
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 807
I wonder what they will do..
I just read the Avalon review at Autoblog...it is not that terrible as some say
t
Of course. I think the goal is Lexus to offer a awd offering without increasing the price....this does not cost more than the V6...adding awd to the V6 would have just increased the MSRP and conventional offerings in the past have added awd on top as and extra cost feature..that didn't work out for Lincoln or Buick and their offering in this segment are cancelled. I applaud Toyota for doing it....I do agree that a turbo or a V6 would be nice, but not an increase in MSRP.. I also don't believe for a second that Toyota could not fit the V6 in there with AWD
I just read the Avalon review at Autoblog...it is not that terrible as some say
t
Of course. I think the goal is Lexus to offer a awd offering without increasing the price....this does not cost more than the V6...adding awd to the V6 would have just increased the MSRP and conventional offerings in the past have added awd on top as and extra cost feature..that didn't work out for Lincoln or Buick and their offering in this segment are cancelled. I applaud Toyota for doing it....I do agree that a turbo or a V6 would be nice, but not an increase in MSRP.. I also don't believe for a second that Toyota could not fit the V6 in there with AWD
So Lexus should skip the Es250 AWD but provide es300h AWD.The Camry Hybrid AWD is also faster to 60mph with better traction.
08-23-20 | 06:27 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,751
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
Toyota was able to offer an AWD with the 2020 Camry in Japan based on the 2.5L Hybrid while keeping the price pretty much the same - increase of 198000 yen which is $1870 USD for the extra electrical motor.
So Lexus should skip the Es250 AWD but provide es300h AWD.The Camry Hybrid AWD is also faster to 60mph with better traction.
So Lexus should skip the Es250 AWD but provide es300h AWD.The Camry Hybrid AWD is also faster to 60mph with better traction.
10-22-20 | 10:26 PM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,715
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
If it were up to me (which it isn't), I'd do several things. First, toss that in-your-face grille and replace it with something that doesn't make me spit out my coffee. Second, toss the in-line four and bring back the 2.5L V6 with the AWD drivetrain, like the former IS250 had. Its 184 ft-lbs. of torque wasn't a lot of power, but it was SMOOTH. Third, get a different method for adjusting the video-screen....that pad is awkward. Fourth, integrate the screen into the dash like GM does.
But it also has some good features. I like the basic control layout, except for the console-pad. Interior space-efficiency seems good for that size sedan and a relatively low roof. And KUDOS to Lexus for using a real shifter, with a nice fore/aft lever (no more zig-zags, like in earlier models), instead of those E-shifters.
But it also has some good features. I like the basic control layout, except for the console-pad. Interior space-efficiency seems good for that size sedan and a relatively low roof. And KUDOS to Lexus for using a real shifter, with a nice fore/aft lever (no more zig-zags, like in earlier models), instead of those E-shifters.
10-23-20 | 03:57 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,751
Likes: 73
From: ON/NY
If it were up to me (which it isn't), I'd do several things. First, toss that in-your-face grille and replace it with something that doesn't make me spit out my coffee. Second, toss the in-line four and bring back the 2.5L V6 with the AWD drivetrain, like the former IS250 had. Its 184 ft-lbs. of torque wasn't a lot of power, but it was SMOOTH. Third, get a different method for adjusting the video-screen....that pad is awkward. Fourth, integrate the screen into the dash like GM does.
But it also has some good features. I like the basic control layout, except for the console-pad. Interior space-efficiency seems good for that size sedan and a relatively low roof. And KUDOS to Lexus for using a real shifter, with a nice fore/aft lever (no more zig-zags, like in earlier models), instead of those E-shifters.
But it also has some good features. I like the basic control layout, except for the console-pad. Interior space-efficiency seems good for that size sedan and a relatively low roof. And KUDOS to Lexus for using a real shifter, with a nice fore/aft lever (no more zig-zags, like in earlier models), instead of those E-shifters.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-23-20 at 05:52 AM.
10-23-20 | 07:49 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,374
Likes: 2,793
From: Maryland
Its beyond time to stop complaining about the grille. The grille is here to stay, the grill has not hurt sales, deal with it lol. I'm so tired of every discussion of one of these cars being all about the grille.
Have to see some reviews from better reviewers...
Have to see some reviews from better reviewers...
10-23-20 | 11:41 AM
#75
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 506
From: CA
Not to get all up in your grill, or anything, but, if I needed AWD, I could live with the 4-banger, but, not sure I could live with the grill. If the grill is deal breaker, why not talk about it? We don't really know if the grill has hurt sales or not. Maybe they would have sold many more units with a reasonably styled grill.