Please Help With Car Buying Decision - Used 2017 or New 2021 Lexus???
09-15-20, 03:22 PM
#76
Lead Lap
I think reliability and product quality/defects are two different things but sometimes connected. Our 2019 Avalon had the fuel pump thing done, they gave us a loaner (Rav4) for the day...I don't consider that a reliability issues, but more like a quality/defect problem...in contrast, my sister IS250awd broke a fan belt which led to a serious issue with a part (I can't remember what got stuck) while travelling out of the city...then a month of two later, the AC compressor failed, I would call that a reliability problem....but she also had a problem with her mirrors that were leaking......I call that a quality/defect (all my own opinion of course)
09-16-20, 11:39 AM
#79
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There is more to the Enform system than Apple Carplay and Android Crap. This is a major technology blunder for Lexus and Toyota. A three-year-old car IS 350 F sport AWD with 3G technology will no longer work that I am still paying for, as The Lexus Enform / "Really OnStar" system based on 3G Cellular is being completely discontinued! Not upgradeable. This really devalues a car with the 3G system vs a 2021 vehicle. Even If I was to trade mine into a dealer I would be laughed at for what I think the car is worth. I am just waiting for the next bad-engineering bombshell Toyota is going to launch. Buy a new one if Lexus is what you really want. I have a really bad taste in my mouth since Lexus sent my discontinuation letter.
09-16-20, 12:37 PM
#80
Super Moderator
^^Definitely agree here. Though the discontinuation of 3G service by the carriers is not specifically Toyota's fault, the carriers indicated that they were going to be doing this a LONG time ago, so there was plenty of time for product planning and development. For example, Verizon stopped accepting 3G devices for network certification back in 2017, because sunset plans for the 3G network were already in full swing.
GM started rolling out 4G LTE-based OnStar in June of 2014 for MY2015 cars, specifically to avoid being in this situation.
GM started rolling out 4G LTE-based OnStar in June of 2014 for MY2015 cars, specifically to avoid being in this situation.
09-16-20, 12:44 PM
#81
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
It's too bad the cellular component isn't "plug and play" architecture. Unplug 3G and plug in 4G - or 5G eventually - for future-proofing. I don't think I would really use this feature - especially if I have to pay a monthly fee of $10-$30. This 3G news should be priced into all pre-2021 models in the market. I plan on making the dealer aware of it and demanding an appropriate discount.
09-16-20, 01:01 PM
#82
Lexus Champion
For those interested in the 3G discontinuation, here is the Toyota list:
2011-2017 Toyota Sienna
2012-2016 Toyota Prius v
2013-2018 Toyota Avalon/HV
2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV
2012-2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in
2013-2017 Toyota Camry/HV
2016-2017 Toyota Mirai
2010-2016 Toyota Prius
2014-2018 Toyota Highlander/HV
2011-2017 Toyota Land Cruiser
2010-2019 Toyota 4Runner
https://www.toyota.com/audio-multimedia/support/3g-faq/
For Lexus, this seems to have been largely addressed for the 2018 models, with the exception of the GX. So other than the GX, all models 2018 and newer are not impacted.
https://lexus2.custhelp.com/app/answ...ervices-update
2011-2017 Toyota Sienna
2012-2016 Toyota Prius v
2013-2018 Toyota Avalon/HV
2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV
2012-2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in
2013-2017 Toyota Camry/HV
2016-2017 Toyota Mirai
2010-2016 Toyota Prius
2014-2018 Toyota Highlander/HV
2011-2017 Toyota Land Cruiser
2010-2019 Toyota 4Runner
https://www.toyota.com/audio-multimedia/support/3g-faq/
For Lexus, this seems to have been largely addressed for the 2018 models, with the exception of the GX. So other than the GX, all models 2018 and newer are not impacted.
https://lexus2.custhelp.com/app/answ...ervices-update
09-16-20, 02:10 PM
#83
Lexus Test Driver
There is more to the Enform system than Apple Carplay and Android Crap. This is a major technology blunder for Lexus and Toyota. A three-year-old car IS 350 F sport AWD with 3G technology will no longer work that I am still paying for, as The Lexus Enform / "Really OnStar" system based on 3G Cellular is being completely discontinued! Not upgradeable. This really devalues a car with the 3G system vs a 2021 vehicle. Even If I was to trade mine into a dealer I would be laughed at for what I think the car is worth. I am just waiting for the next bad-engineering bombshell Toyota is going to launch. Buy a new one if Lexus is what you really want. I have a really bad taste in my mouth since Lexus sent my discontinuation letter.
It's too bad the cellular component isn't "plug and play" architecture. Unplug 3G and plug in 4G - or 5G eventually - for future-proofing. I don't think I would really use this feature - especially if I have to pay a monthly fee of $10-$30. This 3G news should be priced into all pre-2021 models in the market. I plan on making the dealer aware of it and demanding an appropriate discount.
In any case, the market pricing of a used vehicle will reflect any market valuation change. You are free to demand anything, certainly.
09-16-20, 02:11 PM
#84
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It's too bad the cellular component isn't "plug and play" architecture. Unplug 3G and plug in 4G - or 5G eventually - for future-proofing. I don't think I would really use this feature - especially if I have to pay a monthly fee of $10-$30. This 3G news should be priced into all pre-2021 models in the market. I plan on making the dealer aware of it and demanding an appropriate discount.
Thank you for vidicating my assumptions with the 2014 date. I ordered my car direct from Japan and it is like a stab in the back that they could have updated the engineeing on the Enform system which ties to Onstar 3 years before and basically ignored updating until Apple Car Play made the decsion for them.(Lexus/Toyota)
"GM started rolling out 4G LTE-based OnStar in June of 2014 for MY2015 cars, specifically to avoid being in this situation."
With all the tech Nissan is touting lately I would if they waited as Lexus for 4G or better their Infinity/Nissan products.....
09-16-20, 02:20 PM
#85
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Look, forced obsolescence annoys me as much as anyone, but the reality is that some vehicles will always be affected by technology changes - so what is the acceptable cutoff to you? Audi was the first maker to introduce a 4G LTE modem in 2015 and the last Lexus affected is MY2018, so we're talking about a maximum of a three-year gap between Lexus and the first-to-market in the industry. And I'd guess not every Audi had this in 2015 either.
I was about to post that I find it odd that TMC doesn't offer some sort of upgrade (HSPA+ is all that's needed to work on the current infrastructure, I believe). Perhaps the integration of the modem is too complex to swap easily. I suppose that even if it were fully modular, the cost would still be significant when factoring in labor, so perhaps the anticipated market is minuscule. (not when they can sell or lease someone a new vechicle that works)
In any case, the market pricing of a used vehicle will reflect any market valuation change. You are free to demand anything, certainly.
I was about to post that I find it odd that TMC doesn't offer some sort of upgrade (HSPA+ is all that's needed to work on the current infrastructure, I believe). Perhaps the integration of the modem is too complex to swap easily. I suppose that even if it were fully modular, the cost would still be significant when factoring in labor, so perhaps the anticipated market is minuscule. (not when they can sell or lease someone a new vechicle that works)
In any case, the market pricing of a used vehicle will reflect any market valuation change. You are free to demand anything, certainly.
The car itself, (an IS), other than the touchsreen and trackpad for 2021 has not changed much other than styling.
09-16-20, 02:25 PM
#86
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Look, forced obsolescence annoys me as much as anyone, but the reality is that some vehicles will always be affected by technology changes - so what is the acceptable cutoff to you? Audi was the first maker to introduce a 4G LTE modem in 2015 and the last Lexus affected is MY2018, so we're talking about a maximum of a three-year gap between Lexus and the first-to-market in the industry. And I'd guess not every Audi had this in 2015 either.
09-17-20, 12:48 AM
#87
Yup. I blame growing up the son of poor humble Depression-Era Italian immigrants! We have this somewhat irrational paranoia about being poor again, no matter how much wealth we accumulate. It's a blessing and a curse. At least I retired early to S FL though - so I spend my money every day on my "freedom" in paradise while others are still caught up in the rat race. I will try to test drive both and follow my gut. Thank you all for the feedback!!!
09-17-20, 01:26 AM
#88
Pole Position
Why not wait half a year then buy a lightly used 2021 IS. You get all the latest tech, chassis improvements and nicer design and you avoid the new car depreciation.
Also half a year is enough time for teething problems and recalls of the refreshed model to surface on the forums and internet.
Also half a year is enough time for teething problems and recalls of the refreshed model to surface on the forums and internet.
09-17-20, 03:20 AM
#89
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Why not wait half a year then buy a lightly used 2021 IS. You get all the latest tech, chassis improvements and nicer design and you avoid the new car depreciation.
Also half a year is enough time for teething problems and recalls of the refreshed model to surface on the forums and internet.
Also half a year is enough time for teething problems and recalls of the refreshed model to surface on the forums and internet.
09-17-20, 06:13 AM
#90
Lexus Fanatic
There is more to the Enform system than Apple Carplay and Android Crap. This is a major technology blunder for Lexus and Toyota. A three-year-old car IS 350 F sport AWD with 3G technology will no longer work that I am still paying for, as The Lexus Enform / "Really OnStar" system based on 3G Cellular is being completely discontinued! Not upgradeable. This really devalues a car with the 3G system vs a 2021 vehicle. Even If I was to trade mine into a dealer I would be laughed at for what I think the car is worth. I am just waiting for the next bad-engineering bombshell Toyota is going to launch. Buy a new one if Lexus is what you really want. I have a really bad taste in my mouth since Lexus sent my discontinuation letter.
however, not sure how my comments that Apple Car play is overrated has anything to do with your dissatisfaction