Headlight technology has come so far...
09-13-20, 05:49 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Yup, halogens suck, glad they're on their way out.
and anyone who buys a base 'luxury' car that has halogens obviously just wants a badge and has no clue about what makes a car great.
my lexus 20 years ago had HIDs that were great. I guess my loaded explorer after had halogens but i don't drive a whole lot at night so it wasn't a big deal, and heck, it was no luxury car.
my g90 has adaptive (corner turning) LEDs which are amazing.
and anyone who buys a base 'luxury' car that has halogens obviously just wants a badge and has no clue about what makes a car great.
my lexus 20 years ago had HIDs that were great. I guess my loaded explorer after had halogens but i don't drive a whole lot at night so it wasn't a big deal, and heck, it was no luxury car.
my g90 has adaptive (corner turning) LEDs which are amazing.
09-13-20, 06:34 PM
#32
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I am forever getting in my truck (which has remote start) and try to drive it without putting the required key in the ignition. Stupid stupid stupid I always say, never sure if I'm talking about the truck not having that option or me for forgetting.
MM, as many people as you help with car purchases, I'd think poor headlights are a feature you should be extremely critical of, and coach folks to get the upgraded light option if the model being considered only comes with halogens. IMO it is a mandatory safety item as illuminated (pun intended) by the examples posted above; I wouldn't consider a vehicle without them. And as I suspect many of your friends are aging, the extra light really helps even in infrequent night drives. I've had rental cars that had headlights so bad I've actually had to get out to see if the headlights were turned on and no, they weren't just DRLs.
i would liken this to getting a car without abs brakes. Will the old non abs brakes stop the car? Sure they will. Will the abs brakes make the car safer in nearly every driving condition? Yes.
MM, as many people as you help with car purchases, I'd think poor headlights are a feature you should be extremely critical of, and coach folks to get the upgraded light option if the model being considered only comes with halogens. IMO it is a mandatory safety item as illuminated (pun intended) by the examples posted above; I wouldn't consider a vehicle without them. And as I suspect many of your friends are aging, the extra light really helps even in infrequent night drives. I've had rental cars that had headlights so bad I've actually had to get out to see if the headlights were turned on and no, they weren't just DRLs.
i would liken this to getting a car without abs brakes. Will the old non abs brakes stop the car? Sure they will. Will the abs brakes make the car safer in nearly every driving condition? Yes.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 09-13-20 at 08:48 PM.
09-13-20, 06:42 PM
#33
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While we cant quite have the full matrix LEDs here in this country, my car is equipped with it just not having the function turned on. However, when the auto high beams activate, the light opens up like a curtain, where each of the 64 LEDs in each headlight turn up sequentially. Its really a sight to see and really impressive.
Headlights will only get better. Doesn't the new S class have over a million tiny mirrors in each headlight so that it can project images onto the ground in front of you? Very cool.
I think IIHS now includes a headlight rating and a car can only become top safety pick plus if it has good headlights
Headlights will only get better. Doesn't the new S class have over a million tiny mirrors in each headlight so that it can project images onto the ground in front of you? Very cool.
I think IIHS now includes a headlight rating and a car can only become top safety pick plus if it has good headlights
09-13-20, 11:35 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
High intensity discharge bulbs are much more reliable, but also have a shorter theoretical life. The ballasts burn out constantly. A high quality made in Japan halogen will last 30 years, I know I have some. Not headlight halogens though, they burn out in 6-7 years.
Having said all that, I will never go back to the dingy, unsafe halogen headlight bulbs they are shockingly poor.
09-14-20, 06:13 AM
#37
Once I went HID with our 2000MY Honda S2000, was spoiled after that and made it extremely difficult to go back to any non high intensity (HID/LED) light after that.
And yes, things like type of projector and reflector design have significant impact as well.
As RXSF noted, headlight effectiveness is now part of the IIHS safety rating hierarchy, it's why you see brands like Subaru, who cares a lot about those ratings, pushing the adaptive lighting standard on many of their models.
But that brings up another point....I know most of us here would understand, but to a common buyer, would they see the "Top Safety Pick/Top Safety Pick+" rating and just assume it's for the entire model line, vs understanding that it might be for a specific trim/package that has specific headlights, etc.
Had adaptive (swiveling) headlights on our 2005 Lexus RX and 2006 BMW 330i, it's interesting those haven't become more common until now, now that safety ratings look for them.
And yes, things like type of projector and reflector design have significant impact as well.
As RXSF noted, headlight effectiveness is now part of the IIHS safety rating hierarchy, it's why you see brands like Subaru, who cares a lot about those ratings, pushing the adaptive lighting standard on many of their models.
But that brings up another point....I know most of us here would understand, but to a common buyer, would they see the "Top Safety Pick/Top Safety Pick+" rating and just assume it's for the entire model line, vs understanding that it might be for a specific trim/package that has specific headlights, etc.
Had adaptive (swiveling) headlights on our 2005 Lexus RX and 2006 BMW 330i, it's interesting those haven't become more common until now, now that safety ratings look for them.
09-14-20, 07:26 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
09-14-20, 08:09 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I'm a big proponent of LED and HID lighting, but LED tech is notoriously unreliable. I see new models all the time with flickering or burnt out LEDs, saw a Kia the other day where the tail light module was phasing in and out, see BMWs frequently with LED issues.The reason is the diodes are being driven hard, even the slightest flaw or impurities in manufacturing means they de-laminate and burn out. The driver circuits also tend to fail.
Having said all that, I will never go back to the dingy, unsafe halogen headlight bulbs they are shockingly poor.
09-14-20, 08:25 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
I'm a big proponent of LED and HID lighting, but LED tech is notoriously unreliable. I see new models all the time with flickering or burnt out LEDs, saw a Kia the other day where the tail light module was phasing in and out, see BMWs frequently with LED issues.The reason is the diodes are being driven hard, even the slightest flaw or impurities in manufacturing means they de-laminate and burn out. The driver circuits also tend to fail.
09-14-20, 08:27 AM
#42
Lead Lap
My father gave me his 2017 Honda Accord Sport to sell for him and it had halogen headlights (but the weird thing is I think it had LED daytime running lights). I drove the car for a week with the halogens and at night it was terrible and being used to bright LEDs in both of my current vehicles, it seemed somewhat dangerous on backroads. I would never buy a car with halogens.
09-14-20, 08:52 AM
#43
Super Moderator
In general, I agree with the consensus that advanced headlights (be they HID, LED, Matrix, or Laser) are a dramatic improvement over the old school Halogens. But halogens don't HAVE to suck in all situations. My prior 3-series had Xenon low beams and Halogen highs, because Bi-Xenon wasn't really a thing in 2000. Flipping that lever on a dark country road was like opening up a can with the sun inside.
I assume this is due to a great reflector design (that being focused on distance doesn't have to be a jack-of-all-trades).
09-14-20, 11:17 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
It is very common. People see the specs on an LED, 50,000 hour lifespan (5.7 years always on) and think, wow that will last forever. Too bad many fail long before that.
Depends on who makes the ballasts of course, but they burn out all the time even the Denso/Koito ones. Look on Ebay to see how many are being sold they are in high demand.
My ES came with halogen high beams, really good. But an LED in there made them 3x better. A halogen filament can put out about 1000 lumens if you're lucky (700 is typical) that is 3X+ less than a good LED or Xenon bulb.
I kept a few original bulbs (never replaced) these came out of my '87 Camry they were in service about 25 years. The single filament one is made by Toshiba these were even more reliable than the Koito's I think.
warning large image
https://i.imgur.com/iGsBouL.jpg
In general, I agree with the consensus that advanced headlights (be they HID, LED, Matrix, or Laser) are a dramatic improvement over the old school Halogens. But halogens don't HAVE to suck in all situations. My prior 3-series had Xenon low beams and Halogen highs, because Bi-Xenon wasn't really a thing in 2000. Flipping that lever on a dark country road was like opening up a can with the sun inside. I assume this is due to a great reflector design (that being focused on distance doesn't have to be a jack-of-all-trades).
I assume this is due to a great reflector design (that being focused on distance doesn't have to be a jack-of-all-trades).
I kept a few original bulbs (never replaced) these came out of my '87 Camry they were in service about 25 years. The single filament one is made by Toshiba these were even more reliable than the Koito's I think.
warning large image
https://i.imgur.com/iGsBouL.jpg
09-14-20, 11:54 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You misunderstand him. There are no optics that will make up for the sheer difference in illumination between HID/LED and Halogen. 2-5 times as much light output. He means there are variations between LED/HID systems. ALL are significantly better than halogen.
So annoying!
Agreed, and thats a great analogy.
I just don't see these failing LEDs that you see out on the road. I also have not read any reports of people experiencing failures in LED lighting systems. But even then, the difference in safety is so profound...
MM, as many people as you help with car purchases, I'd think poor headlights are a feature you should be extremely critical of, and coach folks to get the upgraded light option if the model being considered only comes with halogens. IMO it is a mandatory safety item as illuminated (pun intended) by the examples posted above; I wouldn't consider a vehicle without them. And as I suspect many of your friends are aging, the extra light really helps even in infrequent night drives. I've had rental cars that had headlights so bad I've actually had to get out to see if the headlights were turned on and no, they weren't just DRLs.
i would liken this to getting a car without abs brakes. Will the old non abs brakes stop the car? Sure they will. Will the abs brakes make the car safer in nearly every driving condition? Yes.
i would liken this to getting a car without abs brakes. Will the old non abs brakes stop the car? Sure they will. Will the abs brakes make the car safer in nearly every driving condition? Yes.