California Banning Sales Of New Gasoline Cars In The State By 2035
09-25-20, 03:07 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
I'm talking about how much energy is in the oil already, not just what it takes to refine, store, transport etc.
Yes I do know how much energy it takes to make a battery, I've read all about well to wheel energy cost petrol vs. a BEV, and have watched a fair number of vids on the matter.
Yes I do know how much energy it takes to make a battery, I've read all about well to wheel energy cost petrol vs. a BEV, and have watched a fair number of vids on the matter.
09-25-20, 04:59 PM
#62
CA could use grand infrastructure updates as the population has grown from the '40's-70's when most of the cities outside of LA were built up. This will bring that. The outer regions of the basin like Riverside county saw growth in the late 80's so they have the updates for the most part. For my neighbors with EV's they have had a 220V sub panel installed. They spend about ~$1K give take a bit for that. Summer and winter rates will vary along with the added generation charges as they build or update the service. In winter we are at tier 1 usage so my monthly is about $65. Summer tier 2 and our Sept billing statement hit $180.
Our SC Edison rates are:
Tier 1 $.21/kWH
Tier 2 $.27/kWH
Tier 3 $.33/kWH
I've run some numbers in the past for a Hybrid and those don't project in a typical timeline. The 5K annual miles driven and less since this Coronavirus has been going on makes operating the commuter quite tame. Gas at this point remains the flexible and affordable choice in my situation. As long as the remaining ICE are around there will be gas though at what costs will be interesting by then.
Our SC Edison rates are:
Tier 1 $.21/kWH
Tier 2 $.27/kWH
Tier 3 $.33/kWH
I've run some numbers in the past for a Hybrid and those don't project in a typical timeline. The 5K annual miles driven and less since this Coronavirus has been going on makes operating the commuter quite tame. Gas at this point remains the flexible and affordable choice in my situation. As long as the remaining ICE are around there will be gas though at what costs will be interesting by then.
09-25-20, 05:25 PM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
LOL and I was just complaining to a friend here about the 11.22c/kwh flat rate here in NV (the context was the in-state energy monopoly). CA often seems like the default for why many other states shouldn't complain about anything.
09-26-20, 05:21 AM
#64
Newsome will be long gone in 15 yrs. His executive order can be overturned easily by who ever is in power then. The world will have other issues to deal with by then and Ice vehicles may be necessary.
09-26-20, 06:09 AM
#66
Racer
Nope... we're having rolling blackouts because the power grid can't handle people using their air conditioners in the heat. CA can't keep the lights on, literally.
I'm in the Central Valley, medium sized city, and SCE (Southern California Edison) is our provider.
I looked up my electric bill just to verify. Our tier 1 rates are 21 cents per kwh and it varies by month how much electricity you get in tier 1. In July we got 726kwh in tier 1, but in August we got 638 kwh. To be fair, I found it does vary by area and we are among the highest. It gets hotter than two hamsters farting in a wool sock here and they charge us more because we use more electricity to run the AC. It's really awesome of them, raise the rates in the areas that need it most
Additionally, our rates have increased by 15-17% each year for the last two years. I didn't go back any further, but I actually checked the last 3 years recently. Our bill was nearly $500 in July so I compared July 2019 and July 2018 with July 2020... 15-17% increase each year. I think I calculated it at 32.x% higher now compared to two years ago.
I actually really want to try out a Tesla, but the charging is too crazy here. I'd have to plug it in when I get home from work in the evening, unless I installed a 400V (or 300V, whatever it is) charger in my home that could quickly charge during the super-off peak hours. Otherwise it would be plugged into 110V and have to slowly charge during peak hours...
A lot of people have been getting solar panels here to help offset electric costs. They do help! But we're not sticking around here much longer so there is no point to buy panels. We will never see a return before we sell the house.
I'm in the Central Valley, medium sized city, and SCE (Southern California Edison) is our provider.
I looked up my electric bill just to verify. Our tier 1 rates are 21 cents per kwh and it varies by month how much electricity you get in tier 1. In July we got 726kwh in tier 1, but in August we got 638 kwh. To be fair, I found it does vary by area and we are among the highest. It gets hotter than two hamsters farting in a wool sock here and they charge us more because we use more electricity to run the AC. It's really awesome of them, raise the rates in the areas that need it most
Additionally, our rates have increased by 15-17% each year for the last two years. I didn't go back any further, but I actually checked the last 3 years recently. Our bill was nearly $500 in July so I compared July 2019 and July 2018 with July 2020... 15-17% increase each year. I think I calculated it at 32.x% higher now compared to two years ago.I actually really want to try out a Tesla, but the charging is too crazy here. I'd have to plug it in when I get home from work in the evening, unless I installed a 400V (or 300V, whatever it is) charger in my home that could quickly charge during the super-off peak hours. Otherwise it would be plugged into 110V and have to slowly charge during peak hours...
A lot of people have been getting solar panels here to help offset electric costs. They do help! But we're not sticking around here much longer so there is no point to buy panels. We will never see a return before we sell the house.
We have been on Time-Of-Day rates for several years now, no longer Tier 1, 2 , 3, etc. When we were on tiered pricing, solar effectively kept us in Tier 1 all the time, even in Summer. There was zero out-of-pocket cost to add solar because we went with the power purchase agreement, basically buying our solar electricity at a lower rate. It has worked out well and our monthly electricity costs today is about the same as we paid in 2013. Solar has basically guarded us from rate increases over the years (and future) despite us using more electricity with a Tesla. *Side-note: We signed up with solar in late 2013 with a company called Paramount Solar, which was bought out by Solar City. Elon was part of Solar City and brokered a deal to be acquired by Tesla. So now our solar bill comes from Tesla.
You don't need a 300 or 400 Volt system to charge an EV at home. A 240V NEMA 14-50 is the standard and many utilities give you a rebate on it so it effectively is free to install. Not only that, we pay only 7.15 cents per kW overnight to charge, 10x cheaper than what it costs to fuel our previous LS 460 (and current ES 330).
As much as I love our Model S, 15 years is not enough time to completely phase out ICE sales but it has to start sometime. There are some workloads that EVs are not yet ready to handle, such as commercial hauling or towing. I see a bunch of exceptions in the future for commercial vehicles.
So what does this mean for all the gas stations in California? They'll still be there to serve existing ICE vehicles but what about longterm?
Last edited by FatherTo1; 09-26-20 at 06:22 AM.
09-26-20, 07:38 AM
#67
CA could use grand infrastructure updates as the population has grown from the '40's-70's when most of the cities outside of LA were built up. This will bring that. The outer regions of the basin like Riverside county saw growth in the late 80's so they have the updates for the most part. For my neighbors with EV's they have had a 220V sub panel installed. They spend about ~$1K give take a bit for that. Summer and winter rates will vary along with the added generation charges as they build or update the service. In winter we are at tier 1 usage so my monthly is about $65. Summer tier 2 and our Sept billing statement hit $180.
Our SC Edison rates are:
Tier 1 $.21/kWH
Tier 2 $.27/kWH
Tier 3 $.33/kWH
I've run some numbers in the past for a Hybrid and those don't project in a typical timeline. The 5K annual miles driven and less since this Coronavirus has been going on makes operating the commuter quite tame. Gas at this point remains the flexible and affordable choice in my situation. As long as the remaining ICE are around there will be gas though at what costs will be interesting by then.
Our SC Edison rates are:
Tier 1 $.21/kWH
Tier 2 $.27/kWH
Tier 3 $.33/kWH
I've run some numbers in the past for a Hybrid and those don't project in a typical timeline. The 5K annual miles driven and less since this Coronavirus has been going on makes operating the commuter quite tame. Gas at this point remains the flexible and affordable choice in my situation. As long as the remaining ICE are around there will be gas though at what costs will be interesting by then.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-26-20 at 07:46 AM.
09-26-20, 08:41 AM
#68
Lexus Champion
Just a quick correction on California electric rates. We discussed this in another thread 
We have a tiered system with our provider. The lower advertised rates are tier 1 and provide enough electricity to keep a fridge running, maybe a microwave, couple light bulbs... Once you hit tier 2 (which everyone does) we're paying over 40 cents per kwh. It is NOT that cheap to charge a car here. Depending on how much you drive, charging could push you into tier 3 which are ridiculous rates.
We have a tiered system with our provider. The lower advertised rates are tier 1 and provide enough electricity to keep a fridge running, maybe a microwave, couple light bulbs... Once you hit tier 2 (which everyone does) we're paying over 40 cents per kwh. It is NOT that cheap to charge a car here. Depending on how much you drive, charging could push you into tier 3 which are ridiculous rates.
Last edited by bagwell; 09-26-20 at 08:53 AM.
09-26-20, 08:51 AM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
California is big. Each region is specific. 95bat lives in a relatively smaller population base compared to So-cal which has 11 cents kwh at night and 25 cents during day. 50 cents during peak of 4-9pm. Norther cali seems to pay more
09-26-20, 09:00 AM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Overall, it pays to have solar. A solar installation is pretty cheap for a decent sized house...probably $30-50k. Of course, the houses here cost about a million easy so its not that much considering the overall cost of living.
09-26-20, 09:12 AM
#72
Lexus Champion
That’s not bad for solar. We’ve been planning a move down there at some point and solar is in our plans.
09-26-20, 10:37 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Unless CA allows for more energy production there is no way they will be able to charge the cars.
Let's not forget the added cost of the car as well. I can buy a truck for $25k right now. What will I do when when those are banned? Buy a $70k Rivian or Tesla? Unless electric vehicle prices come down most people won't be able to afford one.
You're contradicting yourself here. When you say the grid can't handle the peak usage it literally means CA doesn't have enough electricity. The electric companies cannot keep up with demand = not enough. They can't handle the required usage leading to blackouts. Environmentalists have also pushed wind/solar so much companies like PG&E have spent less on maintaining lines and more on wind/solar development. Those old lines are what caused some of the CA fires. The Camp Fire was caused by 100 year old PG&E equipment! So now we have blackouts due to bad weather too.
I think we COULD have enough electricity, but the utility companies are restricted in production. Plus the whole failed nuclear reactor ordeal in San Onofre. During our last heat wave the governor allowed the electric companies to increase production and even purchased out-of-state electricity.
I don't see how it would be possible for the current grid to support a large number of electric vehicles. I guess that means even higher rates so utility companies can repair the grid to prepare for all of the electric vehicles... I'm glad I won't be here to pay for it. Edit - I wanted to add that I am really rooting for all of this to work out, the electric stuff. I an fascinated by the idea of nearly zero maintenance and ridiculous acceleration. I will even get over not being able to make noise doing it. I am rooting for some big updates, I just don't want to pay more for them Over 30% of my paycheck already disappears, I don't want to lose more!
Let's not forget the added cost of the car as well. I can buy a truck for $25k right now. What will I do when when those are banned? Buy a $70k Rivian or Tesla? Unless electric vehicle prices come down most people won't be able to afford one.
You're contradicting yourself here. When you say the grid can't handle the peak usage it literally means CA doesn't have enough electricity. The electric companies cannot keep up with demand = not enough. They can't handle the required usage leading to blackouts. Environmentalists have also pushed wind/solar so much companies like PG&E have spent less on maintaining lines and more on wind/solar development. Those old lines are what caused some of the CA fires. The Camp Fire was caused by 100 year old PG&E equipment! So now we have blackouts due to bad weather too.
I think we COULD have enough electricity, but the utility companies are restricted in production. Plus the whole failed nuclear reactor ordeal in San Onofre. During our last heat wave the governor allowed the electric companies to increase production and even purchased out-of-state electricity.
I don't see how it would be possible for the current grid to support a large number of electric vehicles. I guess that means even higher rates so utility companies can repair the grid to prepare for all of the electric vehicles... I'm glad I won't be here to pay for it. Edit - I wanted to add that I am really rooting for all of this to work out, the electric stuff. I an fascinated by the idea of nearly zero maintenance and ridiculous acceleration. I will even get over not being able to make noise doing it. I am rooting for some big updates, I just don't want to pay more for them
Over 30% of my paycheck already disappears, I don't want to lose more!Last edited by Toys4RJill; 09-26-20 at 10:43 AM.
09-26-20, 11:12 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Next time you look at your monthly electric-bill, check it out. I'll bet that you find that, like here in Virginia, what you pay in Washington for the flat KW-fee is nowhere near the total for the bill. A large percentage of it goes to Federal/state/local fees/taxes, Consumption taxes, Generation fees, fuel fees, and all kinds of B.S. add-on stuff. And then, on top of that, there's a late-fee if you don't pay by a certain date (usually 2-3 weeks later), and you are also asked if you want to voluntarily contribute an extra payment, over and above the bill itself, for the Energy-Share program to benefit people who who can't pay their bills.
One thing, though, in Washington, that helps (and something that California lacks) is the huge Grand Coulee Dam, which itself produces a lot of hydroelectric power.
One thing, though, in Washington, that helps (and something that California lacks) is the huge Grand Coulee Dam, which itself produces a lot of hydroelectric power.
09-26-20, 11:14 AM
#75
Lexus Champion
Oh yes, there are taxes of course. Not very much, though, at 6%. My last bill was $61 in electricity and about $3 in taxes, so $64 total.
Last edited by JDR76; 09-26-20 at 11:17 AM.