Bandaging your finger while your whole leg rots....................China, India, South America. Unless we can stop them, hurting our self to fight what they are doing is dumb. The CCP thinks in 100 year terms, long term effects. We should to. If we competed like China (no rules pretty much) would could shut them down in no time (lowering the pollution they do, while bettering OUR lives). Then 40 -50 years firm now we could set lower world standards. As of now, we hurt ourselves and let China gain power as they pollute even more. We lower ours, they do more and gain more power and wealth. How much of China does USA own ? NONE, it's all owned by the CCP. How much of the USA does the CCP own ? A bunch we sell stuff and believe in ownership (Capitalism). They are on the moon think they will not dirty that place up too ? We need to compete and beat them for the good of Earth even if that cost us some pollution NOW !

 

[QUOTE=EZZ;10899095]And so it begins...



https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohn.../#4443b3b7b876

California Banning Sales Of New Gasoline Cars In The State By 2035

California, the biggest buyer of vehicles in the U.S., is banning sales of new gasoline- and diesel-powered cars and trucks in the state by 2035 with an executive order signed by Governor Gavin Newsom. It’s the single-most aggressive such action ever taken by any U.S. state or nation to fight carbon pollution that’s fueling higher temperatures and wildfires in California and persistent air-quality problems from automotive exhaust.

“To get to a carbon-free economy by 2045 we can’t get there without transportation,” Newsom said in a webcast today. “We are marking a new course … with a firm goal that by 2035 we will eliminate in the state of California sales of internal combustion engines.”

While new carbon-fueled vehicles can’t be purchased after the law takes effect, “you can keep your current car or buy a used car,” he said. “We’re not taking anything away.”

With a population of 40 million the state buys more than 10% of all new cars and trucks sold in the U.S. annually and is the country’s biggest market for electric vehicles, with about 750,000 on the road today. California also has 34 companies making or planning to produce electric vehicles, most notably Palo Alto-based Tesla TSLA -9.5%. The combined value of this company’s “half a trillion dollars,” Newsom said.

Transportation accounts for more than half of California’s carbon pollution, 80% percent of smog-forming pollution and 95% of harmful diesel emissions, Newsom’s office said in a statement. As a result, cities and towns in the Los Angeles region and the state’s Central Valley consistently have some of the worst air quality in the U.S.

Along with the rule of passenger vehicles, California’s Air Resources Board is to set regulations requiring medium- and heavy-duty vehicles to be zero emission by 2045, according to Newsom’s office. Drayage trucks, that haul cargo to and from the state’s ports, will need to be zero-emission by 2035.

California’s previous environmental and emissions rules have been fought by automakers, oil companies and the Trump Administration, and Newsom’s new order undoubtedly will face legal challenges. Nevertheless, six automakers that have previously agreed to stick with California’s tough automotive emissions rules are supporting the switch away from gasoline. They include Ford, Volkswagen, Honda, BMW and Volvo.

Separately, Newsom also said his order includes a ban on fracking for oil and gas production in the state.

The announcement comes the same day Volkswagen unveiled pricing and an on-sale date for its battery-powered ID.4 hatchback and a day after Elon Musk touted Tesla’s plans for cheaper batteries that he says will lead to a $25,000 electric car within the next few years.[/QUOTE

 

I've lived in California all my life, and I can tell you that this will never happen. At least not by that arbitrary date they came up with. You need to add 50 more years. We are the 5th biggest economy in the world, and what they are doing is leveraging the economic weight of the state in getting automakers to ramp up Hybrid/Electric car production, and make it cheaper, as well as push automakers to make existing gasoline engines more fuel efficient. They are also trying to score some points with the more, should I say...greener constituents.

Look, there are probably more gasoline powered cars in the County of Los Angeles than most of the states combined (taking NY out the picture). How are you going to replace all those minivans, pickup trucks, etc with affordable electric options? The majority of car sales in California are gasoline engines, what about all those that will still be on the road? Also, the longest range Tesla still can't make the drive from Northern to Southern California (and vice versa) without making a 2 to 3 hour stop for a charge. What I'm saying, it ain't gonna happen. It's just to push things along using our economic might, which we have being the 5th largest economy in the world, and the top tax revenue contributor to the Federal government (America would basically be another third world country without the revenue the Federal government gets from us)

If they actually pushed through that threat, we would just vote them all out

 

Lithium strip mining/mining is not completely environmentally safe, it is very destructive, salt doesn't matter. Tesla/Musk always paints a rosy picture for everything having to do with electrics when it is not true at all.

 

I totally agree with you. Don't get me wrong, I think EV's are probably the future and for a lot of commutes they make sense, but their production still has environmental impacts rarely talked about

 

Actually this wasn't really legislation - this was an executive order according to the article (I haven't researched it myself). To me, Executive Orders are always bad - they bypass the legislative process and allow one person to do something. An Executive Order can also simply be undone by the next governor so you can end up with flip flops in policy so business can't plan and respond with confidence.

 

We won't know until he can prove it out. We all know EVs are still more environmentally friendly overall than ICE overall so he is just marching to a vision that he thinks is the right thing for his company. At least he's making an effort in improving mining technique vs. the current method which he says is more harmful. Its all about progress and not getting stuck in the past.

 

I may have missed it, but no one has mentioned the reason for the ban: We're killing the earth. Many scientists believe the tipping point has been passed on global warming, it can't be stopped. Others, such as David Attenborough (recently on 60 Minutes), think there may still be time. Newsome and others are not saying everyone in California must use bicycles or walk in 15 years (many Europeans do and have been doing for a long time, without whining), only that vehicles that contribute enormously to environmental degradation will be replaced by ones that do less..

 

See my previous post. Ain't gonna happen. I stated the reasons in the above post

 

How is this going to change, as you are well aware humans are incapable of existing within the balance of nature. I'm talking about in the modern era, before technology people were largely living the same as animals with the exception of crude tools and the like. Now consider the human population through history it remained very low and static until technology came along.
What are you going to do about it? Are you going to stop driving your car? Heating and cooling your home? Stop buying various goods because their manufacture belch out greenhouse gasses? Are you going to stop eating meat? You, I, and everyone is not going to stop doing any of those things we are not going to give up our comforts. And there is the problem, almost everyone that says climate change is going to doom us all does does zip about it, because for the most part we can't. Our lifestyles depend on industries that pollute the earth. Are you going start living your life with the same carbon footprint as most of Africa? If not, how come? If everyone lived with the same CO2 footprint as most of Africa overall pollution would drop drastically. Check it out
https://ourworldindata.org/per-capita-co2

What's that? Oh, right, you don't want to give up buying crap on Amazon, driving your giant SUV, driving to the gym, living in a 2000 sq foot home with a big backyard. What about water usage, are you going to stop using massive amounts?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/

Nope, you are not going to do that either. I'm not picking on you specifically when I say "you" that means you, me, and everyone. My point is it's easy to get up and scold people and say "all scientists agree" meanwhile the elephant in the room is all of us. We are unwilling and unable to stop destroying this planet simply because we love our lifestyles and that lifestyle is enabling by polluting the planet. I'd love if tomorrow we found a way to cut pollution by a factor of 10x or more, which is what is needed if we believe the "all scientists agree" warnings.

Is there a way to enjoy all these comforts and products without the massive carbon footprint? Currently no, not even close. Do the math on what the average person consumes in North America, now try and replace half of that with green energy. Elon Musk did the math, to replace every car with electric in the United States it would require 100 Gigafactories. Is that feasible? Doesn't seem like it. And that is only cars.
I bet Newsome's carbon footprint is way higher than most people. How about HE show us all how it's done, him first. And every celebrity, public figure and scientist that scolds us and tells us we are killing the planet, show us how you live your life and not contribute to the demise of our ecosystem.
True, you are correct.

 

Tesla would run rings for 0-60mph and they battery start degrading fast then BMW would destroy the crap out of Tesla all the way beyond 160mph-please know your facts before posting. Tesla is a crappy built car and not even considered as a luxury car. Compare the interiors with MB, Lexus, BMW and Audi. Tesla interior is far inferior and cheap quality. You know the cost of the Tesla battery and 4 electric motors wold run around 15K but they over inflate the price tens of thousands to build Elon's wealth. The true value of a high end Tesla shouldn't be more than 40K.
Also you guys think electric is clean. Please trace it back to the source, it comes from a mixture of nuclear, coal, hydro etc and of course there's pollution from these places directly contribute to the global warming. So just the hype being electric does not save the world nor reduce the cost per mile it's the other way around until a gallon of gas cost more than $10-please read all the EPA publications than Googling.
When China introduces their all electric car Tesla will have to reduce the overinflated prices of their cars.

 

[QUOTE=EZZ;10899243]Thats not accurate. EVs in the luxury segment are already comparable. A base 3 series cost $50k with decent options. A comparable Model 3 is cheaper than that with almost no maintenance cost. BTW, if you live in California, gas is 3-4x higher than the cost of electricity on a per mile basis. California rates are typically 11 cents per kwh which equates to about $500 if you drive 15000 miles. Assuming a comparable BMW gets around 25mpg, you are look at $2000 if gas is around $3.50 per gallon. Not to mention a $50k Tesla would run rings around a $50k BMW.[/QUOTE

 

Hahahaha a third world country without California I think that is a bit far.

As far as the topic goes I think the 2035 goal is definitely an optimistic one but they will have the support of the federal government on reaching that. There has been a large push by the federal government to get the larger manufactures to not just make their vehicles more fuel efficient but specifically doing so by going electric. It will take a group effort by almost all automotive manufactures, Tesla alone wouldn't come anywhere close to being able to do so but I think most manufactures are already well on the way towards electrifying a majority of their lineup much sooner then we all think.

 

Such a wonky and woky idea. Presently, CA has a rolling blackout in effect. What would happen when million of new EV vehicles plugging the power grid? OH, what will power those power grids? wind? solar? apparently there is no nuclear, which btw is the cleanest energy out there. I guess the lower middle class and the poor people will have to relegate with used gasoline vehicles.

 

[QUOTE=PanamaRed;10904091]It really is nice to see some fresh perspectives....not sure I agree with each of you...but it is nice to read