Toyota Land Cruiser reportedly retiring from the American market after 2021
10-14-20, 06:30 AM
#31
Pole Position
10-14-20, 08:09 AM
#32
Lexus Champion
You can answer your own question by just looking at the numbers of Tahoes/Suburbans, Expedition/Expedition ELs, all of the other full-sized truck-based SUVs from GM and Ford, Nissan Armadas, Toyota Sequoias, and, Yes, Toyota Land Cruisers and Lexus LXs on the road. People are buying and driving them (except maybe for the Land Cruiser) in big numbers, whether they actually need the space of not.
Sedans (unless expensive, luxury cars) just don’t do it for me anymore. And this is coming from someone who has driven sedans their whole life. You’re most likely to end up with some turbo downsized engine, no thanks.
10-15-20, 06:32 AM
#34
Lead Lap
The new and used dealers and resellers are excited from what I hear....I wouldnt be surprised if this announcement appreciated LC/LX values
10-15-20, 12:50 PM
#35
Pole Position
10-16-20, 11:46 AM
#36
I hope all the 80-200 Series values sky rocket, as a means to punish/shut up those that might have the means (but buy flashy badges, cuz status) or criticize the vehicle when new, yet are ever so giddy to buy it when prices drop.
I'm so sick of the fickle used market buyers all over, that instead of appreciating a well engineered product for what it is and if they can't afford it, just patiently wait until they can, instead loudly chose to actively chastise LX 470/570s and GX 470/460s (as well as Land Cruiser) as jokes.
Then come out of the closet and buy them cheap to replace their old Audi or VW GTI (or insert old Euro car). You know, those typical, rather smug mag racer/Jalopnik/TCL/TTAC types, who liken themselves to automotive Darwinists
.
Ditto for high end Korean and many Japanese products like RCF and ISF getting unfair criticism when new, yet the same fools buy them later on and say "killer deal when used".🙄
Even if I didn't have the means to buy new, I would quietly appreciate the product from the sidelines and buy when I could, than insult the product when new and its intended customer base who actually do pay the sticker price.
I have never really cared for Italian-style supercars/hypercars as a young guy, as I feel they're cliche the past 15 or so years. I'm more of an Aston Martin or Porsche 911 type, with exceptions. Zondas, McLarens, and Koenigseggs don't register to me. Yet, I never openly criticize them. I just do me and own as much as I can below, at under $100k per unit. Only own one vehicle that's an exception to that rule.
All Japanese brands will continue to have problems even if they wanted to make ambitious products, because they would honestly need to take a loss to make truly inspirational products.
Who's not to say that the next generation LX will not find new ways to make concessions and cost-cut out high quality aspects where it can be hidden?
There's a reason why Lexus continues to struggle with products above the RX and ES, excluding the ancient GX. And why a vehicle like the Land Cruiser 200 doesn't do well here. A lot of customers just don't believe in spending money on high-end Japanese products, let alone anything Korean in general.
I'm so sick of the fickle used market buyers all over, that instead of appreciating a well engineered product for what it is and if they can't afford it, just patiently wait until they can, instead loudly chose to actively chastise LX 470/570s and GX 470/460s (as well as Land Cruiser) as jokes.
Then come out of the closet and buy them cheap to replace their old Audi or VW GTI (or insert old Euro car). You know, those typical, rather smug mag racer/Jalopnik/TCL/TTAC types, who liken themselves to automotive Darwinists
.Ditto for high end Korean and many Japanese products like RCF and ISF getting unfair criticism when new, yet the same fools buy them later on and say "killer deal when used".🙄
Even if I didn't have the means to buy new, I would quietly appreciate the product from the sidelines and buy when I could, than insult the product when new and its intended customer base who actually do pay the sticker price.
I have never really cared for Italian-style supercars/hypercars as a young guy, as I feel they're cliche the past 15 or so years. I'm more of an Aston Martin or Porsche 911 type, with exceptions. Zondas, McLarens, and Koenigseggs don't register to me. Yet, I never openly criticize them. I just do me and own as much as I can below, at under $100k per unit. Only own one vehicle that's an exception to that rule.
All Japanese brands will continue to have problems even if they wanted to make ambitious products, because they would honestly need to take a loss to make truly inspirational products.
Who's not to say that the next generation LX will not find new ways to make concessions and cost-cut out high quality aspects where it can be hidden?
There's a reason why Lexus continues to struggle with products above the RX and ES, excluding the ancient GX. And why a vehicle like the Land Cruiser 200 doesn't do well here. A lot of customers just don't believe in spending money on high-end Japanese products, let alone anything Korean in general.
10-16-20, 11:58 AM
#37
I hope all the 80-200 Series values sky rocket, as a means to punish/shut up those that might have the means (but buy flashy badges, cuz status) or criticize the vehicle when new, yet are ever so giddy to buy it when prices drop.
I'm so sick of the fickle used market buyers all over, that instead of appreciating a well engineered product for what it is and if they can't afford it, just patiently wait until they can, instead loudly chose to actively chastise LX 470/570s and GX 470/460s (as well as Land Cruiser) as jokes.
Then come out of the closet and buy them cheap to replace their old Audi or VW GTI (or insert old Euro car). You know, those typical, rather smug mag racer/Jalopnik/TCL/TTAC types, who liken themselves to automotive Darwinists.
Ditto for high end Korean and many Japanese products like RCF and ISF getting unfair criticism when new, yet the same fools buy them later on and say "killer deal when used".🙄
Even if I didn't have the means to buy new, I would quietly appreciate the product from the sidelines and buy when I could, than insult the product when new and its intended customer base who actually do pay the sticker price.
I have never really cared for Italian-style supercars/hypercars as a young guy, as I feel they're cliche the past 15 or so years. I'm more of an Aston Martin or Porsche 911 type, with exceptions. Zondas, McLarens, and Koenigseggs don't register to me. Yet, I never openly criticize them. I just do me and own as much as I can below, at under $100k per unit. Only own one vehicle that's an exception to that rule.
All Japanese brands will continue to have problems even if they wanted to make ambitious products, because they would honestly need to take a loss to make truly inspirational products.
Who's not to say that the next generation LX will not find new ways to make concessions and cost-cut out high quality aspects where it can be hidden?
There's a reason why Lexus continues to struggle with products above the RX and ES, excluding the ancient GX. And why a vehicle like the Land Cruiser 200 doesn't do well here. A lot of customers just don't believe in spending money on high-end Japanese products, let alone anything Korean in general.
I'm so sick of the fickle used market buyers all over, that instead of appreciating a well engineered product for what it is and if they can't afford it, just patiently wait until they can, instead loudly chose to actively chastise LX 470/570s and GX 470/460s (as well as Land Cruiser) as jokes.
Then come out of the closet and buy them cheap to replace their old Audi or VW GTI (or insert old Euro car). You know, those typical, rather smug mag racer/Jalopnik/TCL/TTAC types, who liken themselves to automotive Darwinists
.Ditto for high end Korean and many Japanese products like RCF and ISF getting unfair criticism when new, yet the same fools buy them later on and say "killer deal when used".🙄
Even if I didn't have the means to buy new, I would quietly appreciate the product from the sidelines and buy when I could, than insult the product when new and its intended customer base who actually do pay the sticker price.
I have never really cared for Italian-style supercars/hypercars as a young guy, as I feel they're cliche the past 15 or so years. I'm more of an Aston Martin or Porsche 911 type, with exceptions. Zondas, McLarens, and Koenigseggs don't register to me. Yet, I never openly criticize them. I just do me and own as much as I can below, at under $100k per unit. Only own one vehicle that's an exception to that rule.
All Japanese brands will continue to have problems even if they wanted to make ambitious products, because they would honestly need to take a loss to make truly inspirational products.
Who's not to say that the next generation LX will not find new ways to make concessions and cost-cut out high quality aspects where it can be hidden?
There's a reason why Lexus continues to struggle with products above the RX and ES, excluding the ancient GX. And why a vehicle like the Land Cruiser 200 doesn't do well here. A lot of customers just don't believe in spending money on high-end Japanese products, let alone anything Korean in general.
10-16-20, 11:52 PM
#38
The LFA is prime example of Japanese excellence, not getting the credit it wholeheartedly deserves. I concur with your assessment, and would like to add that no matter what they do they won't ever have the caché, pedigree or heritage that draws people to European cars. This is especially true of Mercedes and BMW. Not all their vehicles are up to the standard they represent, but as long as a silver star or roundel graces the hood, they will get a pass. The power of a badge is strong within the automobile community. In the end, we have choices and individuals can decide if the badge/image or a cars merits/capabilities are more important
I used to be like that when I was in HS (hated my Sonata, later got G35S and then G55 AMG), but I grew out of it and simply got what I liked, including a powerless new BRZ as my first ever purchase at 22, because I loved what saw upon their debut in 2011.
Didn't get a Mustang GT 5.0, like I had considered initially. I roll my eyes at people who criticized the MSRP and said it was crap, yet buy old 2013MYs cheap. And people wonder why manuals are disappearing, because very few buy them new or are too impatient to order one.
I definitely didn't like the lack of power and stock 6MT on BRZ, so I got rid of it after 5 months, hoping for the new 2015 Infiniti Q60 3.0T 6MT coupe which never ever came. Then I moved to UK and forgot about Infiniti, later unmoved what arrived 2 years late for 2017 with 7AT only.
At best nowadays, I only have my M760i, which is leased and not even personally owned. If Lexus sold a V12 LS 600, it would've been a no brainer for me and I wouldn't look back. Plus, my lease payment would probably be way less too.
A 2GZ engine was being developed for 3LS back in the day and SC cabrio, but it never made it to latter prototype phases. It was restudied in 2001-03 for 4LS, but ultimately vetoed in favor of 2UR LS600h. That never saw any improvement over its 9.5 year run.
I am all about ultra-luxury, high performance, or rugged ability off road. Any vehicle that 100% defies ALL 3 of those attributes, doesn't get a second look from me at all. I don't expect a luxury sedan to meet #3, but I expect 2 of 3.
Just like I don't expect my Raptor to be #1, but I expected it to be halfway there and 2 of the others.
I don't expect the GT350 to meet #1 nor #3, but it sure as heck is 33% there on #1 and meets #2. I think that's how all enthusiasts should think at the highest levels of vehicle segments.
The biggest Land Cruiser is through and through supposed to be luxurious, which is something people outside of Western Europe and N. Amer understand. It can't be dumbed down as just an XL-sized 4Runner SR5 in trim. All markets it's sold in, have a VX trim which rival the LX in some ways.
It just needs to be kept up to date, like in the past with early 100s and 80-Series. 200 Series wasn't and the market responded.
Toyota has been studying to market a more rugged Land Cruiser over here, as bringing 300-Series seemed redundant and a failure of their 80-100-200 experiment, since the SUV segment got saturated.
That just might never happen, if any hiccups occur or someone changes their mind ultimately. Especially when 2023 4Runner still exists, yet has its own limitations compared to a robust 2024 Land Cruiser at $60-70k and 2023 GX.
TX is not replacing GX I imagine.
10-17-20, 05:19 AM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
The LFA is prime example of Japanese excellence, not getting the credit it wholeheartedly deserves. I concur with your assessment, and would like to add that no matter what they do they won't ever have the caché, pedigree or heritage that draws people to European cars. This is especially true of Mercedes and BMW. Not all their vehicles are up to the standard they represent, but as long as a silver star or roundel graces the hood, they will get a pass. The power of a badge is strong within the automobile community. In the end, we have choices and individuals can decide if the badge/image or a cars merits/capabilities are more important
What credit does the LFA not get?
10-17-20, 09:36 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
No surprise, but it is a shame because the vehicle is so iconic.
Nobody is buying a new LC to drive offroad, hence why they just get the LX and damn the approach angle issue.
Nobody is buying a new LC to drive offroad, hence why they just get the LX and damn the approach angle issue.
10-17-20, 12:01 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not sure if it is still the case, but the LX also used to have a handy off-road option the LC didn't have.....a power-suspension system that raises/lowers the entire vehicle itself (also helps entry/exit). In a sense, counterproductive, in that the LC was probably more likely to actually be taken off-road, particularly in Third-World conditions.
10-17-20, 12:24 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
It still does.
10-17-20, 12:30 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
I'm not sure if it is still the case, but the LX also used to have a handy off-road option the LC didn't have.....a power-suspension system that raises/lowers the entire vehicle itself (also helps entry/exit). In a sense, counterproductive, in that the LC was probably more likely to actually be taken off-road, particularly in Third-World conditions.
Hydraulic will last for hundreds of thousands of miles if you just change the fluid, way better than air durability wise. Love it.
10-17-20, 02:34 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Hydraulic systems have their faults too, like air its an expensive to repair system.
10-17-20, 05:39 PM
#45
Lead Lap
LC is a great vehicle with a solid following and I dont think Toyota was having much difficulty moving units to those who wanted them. The incentives stack was very little if any and likewise their marketing was basically nothing compared to say comparable vehicles from say the big 3 american or nissan.
The problem if you may want to call it one, is the one SW17s mentions is that with the LC being in spitting distance of the LX. The LX can be had for the same money (sometime less) with richer interior and sharper exterior. The differentiation between an LX and LC is barely any. On top of that, the LX and LC when they came out initially were trailblazing in terms of features.....nowdays not soo much.
In regards to the parts of the globe, they also sell them with much less content trim levels, which is part of the reason more units are sold. I assume if they have a $50k 200 I`d bet alot more folks would jump in to get one, and naturally the heavy reseller tax on the 2nd hand market would go down on these as well.
A reliable product is only part of the equation, and I think the timing of the discontinuation is TMC recognizing that there exist market forces strong enough to warrant a change on product offerings. I for one look forward to what the next generation of BOFs from TMC.
The problem if you may want to call it one, is the one SW17s mentions is that with the LC being in spitting distance of the LX. The LX can be had for the same money (sometime less) with richer interior and sharper exterior. The differentiation between an LX and LC is barely any. On top of that, the LX and LC when they came out initially were trailblazing in terms of features.....nowdays not soo much.
In regards to the parts of the globe, they also sell them with much less content trim levels, which is part of the reason more units are sold. I assume if they have a $50k 200 I`d bet alot more folks would jump in to get one, and naturally the heavy reseller tax on the 2nd hand market would go down on these as well.
A reliable product is only part of the equation, and I think the timing of the discontinuation is TMC recognizing that there exist market forces strong enough to warrant a change on product offerings. I for one look forward to what the next generation of BOFs from TMC.