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2021 Toyota Mirai

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Old 01-11-21, 04:01 PM
  #151  
JDR76
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Good thoughts from Motor Trend. Glad to see that it drives well and accelerates better than expected, but the range may be disappointing and I had no idea that hydrogen costs so much. I love the styling of this thing, but the powertrain wouldn't work for me.

Full article is long so I won't post it. Here are some snipits of my choosing.

2021 Toyota Mirai: 8 Takeaways From the New Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Sedan

A week with the Mirai answered some questions and had us questioning some answers.

The 2021 Toyota Mirai could have been the Lexus Mirai

The first thing that struck us is just how nice a car the Mirai is. Obviously, the exterior styling is a huge improvement over the 2016-2020 Mirai (and let's face it, visually speaking there was nowhere to go but up), but we can't help but notice the clear Lexus vibe, and not just because of the Mirai's vaguely-Lexus-LS-like profile. Despite the fact that we were driving the lesser XLE model, the cabin design and soft faux-leather seats felt more Lexus than Toyota to us, as did the ultra-quiet, baby-butt-smooth ride. Of course, the Mirai isn't actually a Lexus, which means we didn't have to put up with the hyper-annoying mouse-pad infotainment system, something that made us nearly happy enough to forgive the lack of a physical volume ****.
It's a lot quieter than the old Mirai

The 2021 Toyota Mirai's performance is ... average

We timed the 2021 Toyota Mirai to 60 mph in 7.4 seconds, nearly two seconds quicker than Toyota's own 9.2-second estimate. Power is moderate: The electric motor has 221 lb-ft of torque to motivate 4,243 pounds of Mirai, and it delivers that power judiciously so as not to waste too much hydrogen (more on which in a second). Off-the-line acceleration is handled by the battery alone, and that holds back that initial sprint. Like most EVs, the Mirai packs a strong mid-range but trails off at higher speeds.
The Toyota Mirai is better in the curves than we expected

… but driving it fast will cost you

The problem with making rapid curvy-road progress in the 2021 Toyota Mirai is that consumes hydrogen as if it were the most common element in the Universe. Which it is, but not necessarily in forms that can be readily delivered to the Mirai's three-section fuel tank. Mirai fuel economy is measured in MPGe—Miles Per Gallon Equivalent—and the EPA gives it a 74 MPGe combined rating, but driving rapidly dropped our numbers down into the low 40s (and, on the steepest hills, down into the 20s), which has a tragic effect on range. You can hustle the Mirai, but it dramatically shortens your tether.
The Toyota Mirai is at its best in Los Angeles traffic

402 miles of range? Maybe not.

Toyota is touting a 402 mile range for the Mirai XLE, while the Mirai Limited is rated at 357 due to around 80 lbs more weight and a more aggressive tire. Which is neither here nor there, because the Mirai's own range-o-meter never showed us with more than 262 miles being available. Granted, we did some lead-footing, as is our job, but we also did our share of eco-cruising. It's possible the average was slow to update; if we were able to maintain even a 70 MPGe average, the Mirai should manage close to 400 miles. Still, we kept a careful eye on that distance-to-empty age. "Range anxiety" is generally a non-issue when there's electricity waiting at home, but with the hydrogen fueling infrastructure still in its infancy, range is much more important.

The Mirai could get really expensive when and if you have to pay for the fuel.

Hydrogen is expensive: We paid $16.70 per kilogram, and the Mirai's tank holds 5.6 kg. For those of you not mathematically inclined, that's a $93.52 fill-up if your Mirai is running on fumes. (Bad choice of words, perhaps. Since hydrogen is gaseous, one could say the Mirai always runs on fumes.) From three-quarters of a tank, we paid nearly $75 to fill up. This won't be an issue right away, as the Mirai comes with $15,000 or 3 years' worth of free hydrogen. That's enough for 160 complete fills, and even if the Mirai were to only manage 250 miles per tank, would take you to around 37,500 miles. Hydrogen prices are expected to drop to $6-7/kg by 2024 or 2025, but if that doesn't happen, your 2021 Toyota Mirai could start to feel an awful lot like a 1974 Plymouth Fury.
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Old 01-11-21, 04:19 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by JDR76
Good thoughts from Motor Trend. Glad to see that it drives well and accelerates better than expected, but the range may be disappointing and I had no idea that hydrogen costs so much. I love the styling of this thing, but the powertrain wouldn't work for me.

Full article is long so I won't post it. Here are some snipits of my choosing.[h1][/h4][h3][h3][h3][h3]Source
The range is bad for something that claims 400 miles. At least it's not slow as advertised. Hydrogen seems very expensive right now. At least it's subsidized by the OEM.
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Old 01-11-21, 05:02 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by JDR76
Good thoughts from Motor Trend. Glad to see that it drives well and accelerates better than expected, but the range may be disappointing and I had no idea that hydrogen costs so much. I love the styling of this thing, but the powertrain wouldn't work for me.

Full article is long so I won't post it. Here are some snipits of my choosing.









Source



I am sure there will be a more powerful version offered at some point. The electric motor is the same electric motor as the RX450h.

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Old 01-11-21, 05:05 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I am sure there will be a more powerful version offered at some point. The electric motor is the same electric motor as the RX450h.
The motor is not the issue. Its the ability to convert the hydrogen to electricity that is the issue currently. To add more power, they have to add more parallel fuel stacks to convert hydrogen to electricity or significantly improve the conversion process. Of course, this would make it significantly more expensive in the process.
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Old 01-11-21, 05:12 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by EZZ
The motor is not the issue. Its the ability to convert the hydrogen to electricity that is the issue currently. To add more power, they have to add more parallel fuel stacks to convert hydrogen to electricity or significantly improve the conversion process. Of course, this would make it significantly more expensive in the process.
I am sure Toyota can do it. The battery is what gives the the motor the acceleration...then switches to hydrogen. It’s essentially a hybrid.

Happy to see MT beat the performance expectations listed by Toyota

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Old 01-11-21, 05:35 PM
  #156  
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Some of the features I am surprised they offer

climate concierge
rear seating ac amd heat controls built into the center armrest screen
a powered sunshade open/closer
parking assist where it parks for you, pulls out of parking spots, parallel park and all that jazz. (Never knew this stuff was available on any toy or lex product)
self restoring paint, I thought this was Lexus exclusive
there is some sort of roof film like a clear bra sitting on the roof

never would have expected there would be a 12 volt battery.
there is a traditional radiator


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Old 01-12-21, 01:06 AM
  #157  
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The Mirai sounds so much more accomplished as a Dailly driver than the Tesla. Only thing against it is the infrastructure.
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Old 01-12-21, 06:51 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by natnut
The Mirai sounds so much more accomplished as a Dailly driver than the Tesla. Only thing against it is the infrastructure.
The Mirai is no different than any comparable ICE and way more expensive too. It's the same experience with no infrastructure.

The Tesla at least is a completely different driving experience and many people that drive it love the car. The only reason you'd get a Mirai is to be green. The Tesla offers other attributes over ICE that make it very desirable.
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Old 01-12-21, 07:41 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I am sure Toyota can do it. The battery is what gives the the motor the acceleration...then switches to hydrogen. It’s essentially a hybrid.

Happy to see MT beat the performance expectations listed by Toyota
Battery discharge rate is directly proportional to capacity. This is why performance BEVs invariably have large batteries and at least somewhat high ranges. The Mirai is already heavy and volume limited as is. Where are they going to find room to put more battery in?
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Old 01-12-21, 08:02 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by ChronoR
Battery discharge rate is directly proportional to capacity. This is why performance BEVs invariably have large batteries and at least somewhat high ranges. The Mirai is already heavy and volume limited as is. Where are they going to find room to put more battery in?
I guess the newer batteries have higher discharge rates given equal capacity so in theory, it can get faster in the future with a smaller battery. Solid state may be able to achieve this but production will be at least 5-10 years away and its really just a unicorn at this point. A good overview is below if anyone is interested.

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Old 01-12-21, 08:25 AM
  #161  
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It should be possible but right now the 2021 Mirai has a 128kW fuel cell stack and a 1.6kWh nickel metal hydride battery. Even if Toyota manages double Tesla's discharge c-rate (supposedly up to 4c) that's still only a peak of 144kW (128kW + 1.6kWh * 10c) if everything works perfectly efficiently. The actual power of a 2021 Mirai is apparently 113kW.
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Old 01-12-21, 08:30 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by natnut
The Mirai sounds so much more accomplished as a Dailly driver than the Tesla. Only thing against it is the infrastructure.
yeah the only thing. $94 for 262 miles of range, is AWFUL.

DOA.
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Old 01-12-21, 08:31 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by ChronoR
It should be possible but right now the 2021 Mirai has a 128kW fuel cell stack and a 1.6kWh nickel metal hydride battery. Even if Toyota manages double Tesla's discharge c-rate (supposedly up to 4c) that's still only a peak of 144kW (128kW + 1.6kWh * 10c) if everything works perfectly efficiently. The actual power of a 2021 Mirai is apparently 113kW.
New battery is lithium. It’s the exact part from the Lexus LS500h
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Old 01-12-21, 08:38 AM
  #164  
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Are there specs out on the maximum discharge from the ls/lc500h system? The ni-mh systems in the gs450h/ls600h top out at 35kw, officially limited by the hybrid inverter assembly (more specifically the buck/boost converter, the actual inverter can handle an insane amount of power, as demonstrated by recent DIY EV efforts).
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Old 01-12-21, 08:38 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
yeah the only thing. $94 for 262 miles of range, is AWFUL.

DOA.
There are now 3 or 4 Hydrogen stations within 20 miles of the greater San Francisco Bay Area, and I was curious to check on the prices. However, no website like Gasbuddy currently exists to display those prices. I will have to swing by one of these days to actually see if it is as expensive as listed in this article. But Toyota and Hyundai were paying for people's hydrogen for the length of their leases (or is it up to 3 years I forget), so hopefully they keep doing that.
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