Toys4RJill

I disagree. I am happy Hyundai is investing in FC EVs as well

LeX2K

Toyota says they expect to build 1 million EVs and FCEVs by 2030 that is basically admitting they are no where near ready to go prime time with either. VW projects 40% of their sales in 2030 will be EVs.
source

BTW there is no such thing as an "end game" when it comes to technology it is always evolving and improving and there will always be new tech/breakthroughs.

peteharvey

VW sells a lot of cars in Europe & China [both high population density with heavy fossil fuel pollution], hence 40% of their vehicles will be EV's by 2030.

TMC sells mostly in US & other parts of the world, hence only 1 million EV's by 2030.


Also, TMC humble targets.
While VW AG arrogant targets the German way...
.

Striker223

Powered off nukes for large scale and solar for personal. Store the hydrogen for later like a battery system that doesn't require a insane amount of heavy metal

SW17LS

One day, BetaMax, HDDVD and Hydrogen cars will all win out. You'll see lol

EZZ

HD-DVD...lol. Such an obscure reference. Hydrogen is inherently much much less efficient from well to wheel than BEV. That alone will dictate the winner.

LeX2K

Excuses excuses.
You didn't need to go there. But humble is admitting your mistake and changing the entire direction of a company. Take notes Toyota.
Unfortunately modern nuclear looks like it will never happen. If it did then great we use the excess power to store energy via hydrogen. The cars would still suck though especially in cold climates (if they will even run) imagine thousands of cars literally pissing water onto a frozen surface.
HD Laser Disc for life.

mmarshall

I just have one thing to say in the EV vs. Hydrogen debate. Just wait till our cities look like this at night, or you have no heat or A/C, because too many people trying to recharge their vehicles at once.

Toys4RJill

I don't know if that is gonna happen...but if everyone converts, how do we pay for roads, infrastructure upgrades for charging, battery recycling etc etc? It will become more and more costly.....gas is such a cheap way to fuel your car....battery electric as well as FCEV will be cost more...(when that times comes) There will be place for both battery and fuel cell electrics..

SW17LS

Haha, I do try lol

Forgot about that one! For sure,.

That's not going to happen. Look at how the power grid has evolved to meet our needs over time. Think about the demand we put on it today vs 10 years ago.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Taxes of course. One way or another the govt has to get money to keep infrastructure going.
sales taxes, income taxes, registration fees, use taxes, property taxes, on and on... one way or another, they'll take money.

EZZ

The taxes are already being levied on EVs in many states. California charges $100 per EV during the annual registration renewal and thats about the same cost as fuel tax for a year for the state. Infrastructure will be built out because EVs are revenue generating for the power companies so they WANT more EVs on the road to increase revenue. The power company is more than happy to build that new powerplant if forecasted demand from EVs is there. Last I checked the charging points are a business and Electrify America is building out charging points for profit...not out of the kindness of their hearts. Capitalism is a beautiful thing

gengar

CA tax is currently about 64c/gal (meaning CA revenue, it does not include fed tax). So that $100 would only cover roughly 150gal/year. Most motorists are using far, far more than that.

EZZ

I was looking at 12k miles per year at 35 miles per gallon which is roughly 340 gallons used and 30cents per gallon so ~$100. That 30 cents seems outdated now (this was in 2017)...its now 50cents per miles. So i guess the state needs to charge about $200. Your 64 cents includes sales tax which shouldn't be a part of the gas tax equation as all things are charged sales tax. I'm sure the government will adjust over time to charge vehicle fees to match what they've lost in any gas tax but taxes will always be collected so worrying about infrastructure isn't really an issue.

gengar

It's revenue the state isn't getting, so of course it's part of the equation. It's not like EV owners are paying sales tax on their $100 EV registration fee.

Your 12k assumption is quite low and the 35mpg is on the high side, too. IIRC average annual mileage per vehicle in CA is closer to 15k.