This is why I did not get a new Lexus ES.
11-05-20, 06:41 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
This is why I did not get a new Lexus ES.
I've said before, on Car Chat (it's no secret), that, except for the somewhat over-swept front headlights, I thought the 4th-Generation Lexus ES (2001-2006) was the best one ever built, and that I was more progressively disappointed with each one since then, although I'll admit that the latest one (7Gen) does seem to have restored some of the door-solidness missing from the last two versions. Still, there are a number of things I strongly disliked about it....epsecially in the area of refinement, road-manners, and interior cheapness. It's also no secret that a number of posters told me I was wrong, that it was, in fact, a more comfortable car (even with 45-series tires) than I was making it out to be, and that I was simply being unreasonable in my statements. Fine...their opinions noted, and I respect them (as I also do in the case of the Lexus NX). But, from an actual KBB customer-survey, turns out I wasn't so wrong....a lot of newer ES customers (or potential ES customers) apparently agree wth me.....more so than the car's actual press-reviewers.
This is an up-to-date article, BTW......just published today.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-lex...sumer-reviews/SEDANS & COUPES
Car shoppers often ask if it’s worth it to buy a luxury car. However, there is an undeniable sense of prestige and satisfaction that comes with purchasing a model from a brand like Lexus.
Many drivers got behind the wheel of the Lexus ES expecting to enjoy premium materials, cutting-edge technologies, and thrilling performance. After all, driving a luxury car is supposed to be a serene experience. However, some were left disappointed, as the Lexus ES left them distracted, uncomfortable, or concerned.
What exactly turned off these Lexus ES owners, and do critics share similar concerns? Let’s examine what both parties have to say.
A 2021 Lexus ES on display | Photo via LexusIf you’re willing to pay above $35,000 for a sedan, then you might be debating between a luxury compact car or a standard full-size sedan. The Lexus ES looks like the better option at first glance when compared to the Toyota Avalon and similar models. However, some buyers who made this choice retroactively wished they saved a couple of thousands of dollars and went with a standard brand.
Kelley Blue Book’s consumer ratings give the Lexus ES an overall score of just 3.6/5 – worst among all luxury vehicles.
One KBB reviewer said, “Prior to my purchase of the 2020 ES 350, I owned a 2015 Hyundai Azera. Would you believe that the Lexus has little over the Hyundai? My main complaint is the level of wind and road noise.”
Other common customer complaints range from seat comfort to audio system issues. While these issues don’t initially appear to be significant, they can wear on you when driving the car on a daily basis. One 2020 Lexus ES owner called the audio system a “deal-breaker.” This buyer said, “Lexus raised the price of this car and then cheapened it with a junk sound system.”
The U.S. News & World Report named the ES its third-best luxury midsize sedan for the 2021 model year. The publication noted its smooth ride and impressive predicted reliability among the most significant positives the vehicle has to offer. Meanwhile, the only significant negative it mentioned was the car’s finicky infotainment controls.
Prospective buyers can get an ES tailored to their style of driving. The 2021 Lexus ES 250 comes with a 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission and an AWD system. This powertrain kicks out 203 hp and returns a healthy 28 MPG city/highway combined.
However, those looking for sporty performance should opt for the 2021 ES 350. This model ditches AWD for a front-wheel-drive system, but it adds a 302-hp 3.5-liter V6 engine. Finally, the ES 300h is the perfect car for eco-conscious drivers, as it returns an EPA-estimated 44 MPG combined.
Those looking for paradise on wheels might take issue with this luxury sedan. However, the Lexus ES could be a value-buy for those willing to overlook audio system issues, road noise, and an unfriendly infotainment system. Of course, front-seat comfort could be a concern for some drivers. But shoppers will likely be able to come to their own conclusion about that during a test drive.
This is an up-to-date article, BTW......just published today.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-lex...sumer-reviews/SEDANS & COUPES
The Lexus ES Is a Terrible Luxury Car, According To KBB Consumer Reviews
by Ryan Tooheyon November 5, 2020Have you ever thought about treating yourself by purchasing a luxury car? Many of us have. But before you do so, it’s essential to do your research. The last thing you need is to have your splurge turn into a headache. Such is the case of many buyers of the Lexus ES.Car shoppers often ask if it’s worth it to buy a luxury car. However, there is an undeniable sense of prestige and satisfaction that comes with purchasing a model from a brand like Lexus.
Many drivers got behind the wheel of the Lexus ES expecting to enjoy premium materials, cutting-edge technologies, and thrilling performance. After all, driving a luxury car is supposed to be a serene experience. However, some were left disappointed, as the Lexus ES left them distracted, uncomfortable, or concerned.
What exactly turned off these Lexus ES owners, and do critics share similar concerns? Let’s examine what both parties have to say.
What do owners hate about the Lexus ES?
A 2021 Lexus ES on display | Photo via LexusIf you’re willing to pay above $35,000 for a sedan, then you might be debating between a luxury compact car or a standard full-size sedan. The Lexus ES looks like the better option at first glance when compared to the Toyota Avalon and similar models. However, some buyers who made this choice retroactively wished they saved a couple of thousands of dollars and went with a standard brand.
Kelley Blue Book’s consumer ratings give the Lexus ES an overall score of just 3.6/5 – worst among all luxury vehicles.
One KBB reviewer said, “Prior to my purchase of the 2020 ES 350, I owned a 2015 Hyundai Azera. Would you believe that the Lexus has little over the Hyundai? My main complaint is the level of wind and road noise.”
Other common customer complaints range from seat comfort to audio system issues. While these issues don’t initially appear to be significant, they can wear on you when driving the car on a daily basis. One 2020 Lexus ES owner called the audio system a “deal-breaker.” This buyer said, “Lexus raised the price of this car and then cheapened it with a junk sound system.”
Critics have fewer concerns
This loaded luxury sedan traditionally fares well with the experts. Starting at an MSRP of $39,900, the Lexus ES offers a lot of value for the money. Plus, the 2021 ES added more features, including an available all-wheel-drive system.The U.S. News & World Report named the ES its third-best luxury midsize sedan for the 2021 model year. The publication noted its smooth ride and impressive predicted reliability among the most significant positives the vehicle has to offer. Meanwhile, the only significant negative it mentioned was the car’s finicky infotainment controls.
Prospective buyers can get an ES tailored to their style of driving. The 2021 Lexus ES 250 comes with a 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine mated to an eight-speed automatic transmission and an AWD system. This powertrain kicks out 203 hp and returns a healthy 28 MPG city/highway combined.
However, those looking for sporty performance should opt for the 2021 ES 350. This model ditches AWD for a front-wheel-drive system, but it adds a 302-hp 3.5-liter V6 engine. Finally, the ES 300h is the perfect car for eco-conscious drivers, as it returns an EPA-estimated 44 MPG combined.
Should you consider buying the Lexus ES?
RELATED: Most Complained About Lexus CarsThose looking for paradise on wheels might take issue with this luxury sedan. However, the Lexus ES could be a value-buy for those willing to overlook audio system issues, road noise, and an unfriendly infotainment system. Of course, front-seat comfort could be a concern for some drivers. But shoppers will likely be able to come to their own conclusion about that during a test drive.
11-05-20, 07:25 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I haven't sampled the very newest Camry on the road yet. But, from my static-inspections, I think the Camry might be a better buy for the money, although I'm not impressed with the way it is marketed. IMO there are too many restrictions on how you can get the nice two-tone package (apparently XSE only), and having the V6 not available on the sport-oriented SE version makes little sense to me....you have to get the XSE for the V6. 
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-05-20 at 07:30 PM.
11-05-20, 08:52 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
I’ve owned 2 ESs, still own one of them and the new ES is in my opinion the best overall one they’ve made. It’s an entry level luxury car, it’s not the LS and the reviews mentioned in that article reek of people who’s expectations were set too high.
11-06-20, 01:16 AM
#5
The new ES is excellent for what it is. In fact, it's so excellent that it cannibalizes sales from the IS, GS, and LS. That's the problem.
The biggest mistake of the ES remains not offering AWD with the V6.
The biggest mistake of the ES remains not offering AWD with the V6.
11-06-20, 03:03 AM
#6
Pole Position
What constituted luxury in a car twenty years ago is now present in every day car from every day manufacturer. I remember 2003 ES being advertised as 5 star hotel and that was true back in the day but today all or most of the cars do really well in ride comfort, wind noise, fit and finish etc. That's why ES haven't been anything special for past two-three generations cause it offers so little over mainstream competition. Current generation is the best looker ES they've ever done but everything else is not whole a lot better that what's already on the market and costs less.
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11-06-20, 06:05 AM
#8
What constituted luxury in a car twenty years ago is now present in every day car from every day manufacturer. I remember 2003 ES being advertised as 5 star hotel and that was true back in the day but today all or most of the cars do really well in ride comfort, wind noise, fit and finish etc. That's why ES haven't been anything special for past two-three generations cause it offers so little over mainstream competition. Current generation is the best looker ES they've ever done but everything else is not whole a lot better that what's already on the market and costs less.
Unless a manufacturer has a 'heritage' and is a storied 'brand name' that people desire, it is in some sense pointless to even have a luxury division anymore. Your normal cars are very much 'luxury' cars with where they are today in terms of build quality, materials, features and performance. (compared to the luxury cars of yesteryear)
I mean compare the Avalon to the ES. Also look at the Mazdas - really upscale interior quality and build and overall performance for 'regular' prices. Technology trickles down and now companies like Mercedes are running out of 'luxury features' (new S-class...animal noises...seriously??). Don't get me wrong - I still think that the Mercedes cars are a cut above from everything else...you can sense that when you sit in one...but nonetheless, the disparity is not as great as it once was.
Last edited by rosskoss; 11-06-20 at 08:09 AM.
11-06-20, 06:19 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
I personally don’t consider ES a luxury car.
It’s somewhere between Toyota plus and entry-Luxury sedan. I think it meets the target market of its buyers quite well and why its been successful. I have long said that Lexus should drop ES and focus on GS if it were to be taken serious as a Luxury brand. Obviously they took the easy way.
To me the Genesis G80 is a luxury car and superior to the ES in every possible way. All you need to do is sit and drive them both.
It’s somewhere between Toyota plus and entry-Luxury sedan. I think it meets the target market of its buyers quite well and why its been successful. I have long said that Lexus should drop ES and focus on GS if it were to be taken serious as a Luxury brand. Obviously they took the easy way.
To me the Genesis G80 is a luxury car and superior to the ES in every possible way. All you need to do is sit and drive them both.
11-06-20, 06:21 AM
#10
I haven't sampled the very newest Camry on the road yet. But, from my static-inspections, I think the Camry might be a better buy for the money, although I'm not impressed with the way it is marketed. IMO there are too many restrictions on how you can get the nice two-tone package (apparently XSE only), and having the V6 not available on the sport-oriented SE version makes little sense to me....you have to get the XSE for the V6.
11-06-20, 06:45 AM
#11
Pole Position
Well the ES and the same applies to the RX, noisy vehicles. That includes, road, wind, dash and body creaks. Perhaps the TNGA solved the creaks in the new ES, but the 2020 RX I had as a loaner, the dash creaked over bumps, the floor pan wobbled, the engine just sounded terrible and the thing only had 120 miles on it. Even the GS and previous LS460 had more road, wind and body noise than you would expect in a luxury car. I have no sampled any of the TNGA based cars yet so can't say how much better it is. Road and wind noise as a whole is a problem in most Lexuseseses.
11-06-20, 06:52 AM
#12
This ^^^
Unless a manufacturer has a 'heritage' and is a storied 'brand name' that people desire, it is in some sense pointless to even have a luxury division anymore. Your normal cars are very much luxury cars with where they are today in terms of build quality, materials, features and performance.
I mean compare the Avalon to the ES. Also look at the Mazdas - really upscale interior quality and build and overall performance for 'regular' prices. Technology trickles down and now companies like Mercedes are running out of 'luxury features' (new S-class...animal noises...seriously??). Don't get me wrong - I still think that the Mercedes cars are a cut above from everything else...you can sense that when you sit in one...but nonetheless, the disparity is not as great as it once was.
Unless a manufacturer has a 'heritage' and is a storied 'brand name' that people desire, it is in some sense pointless to even have a luxury division anymore. Your normal cars are very much luxury cars with where they are today in terms of build quality, materials, features and performance.
I mean compare the Avalon to the ES. Also look at the Mazdas - really upscale interior quality and build and overall performance for 'regular' prices. Technology trickles down and now companies like Mercedes are running out of 'luxury features' (new S-class...animal noises...seriously??). Don't get me wrong - I still think that the Mercedes cars are a cut above from everything else...you can sense that when you sit in one...but nonetheless, the disparity is not as great as it once was.
I think what Vladi was getting at is that the gap between the ES and other FWD midsize offerings from non-premium brands has become so close that the ES can't really be considered a luxury vehicle within that category like it once was. Personally, I don't completely agree, as the ES more thoughtful luxury touches than your basic Camry or Avalon, but the gap is much closer than before.
Dropping the ES and RX would torpedo Lexus sales into oblivion. But I guess we'll never really know, because both of those vehicles were crutches that prevented Lexus from truly succeeding with their RWD offerings on the level of the Germans.
Last edited by Motorola; 11-06-20 at 06:56 AM.
11-06-20, 07:37 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
BTW, Folks....(and just to make it clear for the moderators)......I did not start this thread to try and get people or opinions here to toss stones at each other, but simply to explain why, in response to comments in Car Chat, I made a buying (or non-buying) decision on a specific vehicle, and provide some evidence for it.
11-06-20, 07:44 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don't see any problem with the ES being FWD (as long as an AWD option is offered for those who want it)...I'm just not impressed with its materials or road-manners. IMO, it is clearly not the ES any more that helped make the vehicle famous.
But, also, being realistic, at least some of those who want AWD are also going to want extra ground-clearance, which is why they are over in the other end of the showroom looking at the RX. The RX did not become the top-seller at Lexus for nothing...and, IMO, despite being a crossover, it is actually more comfortable to drive, at least without the F-Sport-suspension/tires.