The old car was a lot better looking.

 

I'd bet money that the 2.4L in this car will make its way into the Legacy, Outback, and Crosstrek, though with less horsepower. And I can say from driving my wife's Outback, the Subaru EJ is very tired.

 

I think it looks great. But feel like it's reminding me of a Hyundai/Genesis. And little like Porsche where the hood meets the fenders.

 

That was my first impression - Hyundai from the rear, maybe Cayman or a touch of Z from the front depending on the angle. I liked the old styling better; at least it was distinctive. I'm not saying the new styling is necessarily bad, it just feels generic.

 

agreed. Generic is a good term to use. And yeah the Hyundai i saw was on the rear, forsure.

 

Agreed they took styling cues from different vehicles - RCF side, Civic/NSX tails, Porsche/Mazda front.
It looks much better on videos posted by Youtubers from Thermal launch event rather than Subaru press pics.
Looking forward to Toyota 86 version.

So far I like the new Nissan Z400 design over this BRZ and the Supra.

 

One has to wonder how Nissan can go at it alone but Toyota, of all companies, needs to partner with someone else with all the money it has and engineering talent.

 

^
This is why Toyota sits on a mountain of cash and Nissan got taken over by Renault.

I wish Toyota would have built the Supra as the last farewell to ICE sportscars but they don’t want to take any risks /losses.

 

Well clearly TMC doesn't need the partnerships and can develop these cars alone - but that actually makes it worse. TMC is so conservative and risk-averse that they choose to partner with other companies instead of striving for greatness on their own.

I understand the oft-made argument that maybe with no Subaru partnership there might be no FT-86 and perhaps even no BRZ, but that doesn't address this criticism. And even then, especially when a legendary name like Supra gets slapped on what is essentially a BMW kit car, does the end even justify the means anyway?

 

There is nothing to wonder really (they know that).....Toyota has partnerships with Subaru, and Mazda to keep these small companies afloat..its part of the great Japanese good to keep the Japan auto industry afloat as the automotive industry is contracting (pre-pandemic) and not all companies will survive and make the transition. Especially as electrics take over.....Toyota would not sell anymore FRS or Supra's without a partnership so this is a cost reduction reasons as they would be just wasting money and profit....and finally keeps barriers of entry for other manufacturers to enter the segment as well..

 

Well, Subaru is becoming more and more Toyota owned, so this is actually not surprising at all. As of last year, TMC owns 20% of Subaru, and that is pretty huge stake (Mazda and Suzuki is much smaller).

I am actually surprised they don't cooperate more.

As to the Toyota itself, new GR Yaris got raving reviews in Europe as best Toyota they have ever tested and possibly best car in last decade, but that does not get traction in US it seems.

 

They do cooperate substantially. TMC's stock ownership / partnership with Subaru in the mid-to-late 2000s was more about TMC (via Daihatsu) taking over Subaru's K-Car production than anything to do with the FT-86.


The GR Yaris is the best current example supporting my point as it just goes to show what TMC can achieve on its own. And IIRC it's already sold out in several markets to boot. Although the over-conservative, risk-averse problem shows up once again as TMC won't bring it to the USA.

 

Exactly! That 3cyl turbo could have made the 86 great and the TNGA should have been versatile enough to make a cheap sports car out of. They dont have to bring the Yaris stateside. Just bring the engine and install it in anything that has wheels.

 

Nissan isn't exactly alone. They have international relationships with Renault and Mitsubishi.

 

What part of the new Z is Mitsubishi and or Renault?