F1Driver

Now, you're delusional. Are you forgetting that Mazda has consistently been ranked up there with Toyota/Lexus?

So, Acura had one bad year. Big deal. How does that compare to ranking 24 out of 28 this year and ranking 12 out 15 in 2018 for Genesis? And considering that Acura sells a lot more vehicles than Genesis in any year they should be doing a victory lap.

Honda/Nissan sell way more cars than the Koreans. More cars will mean potentially more problems. Now, what's your excuse for Hyundai/Kia/Genesis issuing 33 recalls for vehicle fires that involve at least 20 models and more than 5 million vehicles from the model years 2006 through 2021?

TangoRed

They’re far from the only manufacturer to have a similar warning due to a recall issue.

Motorola

Oh, so now your point is that Hyundai and Kia are the most reliable brands out there short of Toyota and Mazda. Let's see the excuses for the other 25 or so brands left.

First of all, that's not "12 out of 15", that's a cropped version of the chart because I couldn't find the one that had all 28 or so brands.

Let's look at Genesis's rankings: 12, 6, 5, unranked, and 24. Now let's look at Acura: 13, 19, 28, unranked, and 8.

So a brand whose low is lower than Genesis's lowest and whose highest is still lower than two years of Genesis... and you insist that they have better rankings?

That's not how statistics work. More vehicles means less error, because of a larger pool. A smaller pool means that one outlier can skew the entire distribution. You've effectively argued against yourself lol.

I can't believe I have to explain such a simple concept...

The same thing I've been saying since the beginning of the thread- how do those recalls affect their reliability scores?

You posted the latest CR survey that shows data for the 2022 MY, and yet where have all these recalls taken their toll on Hyundai in the past 5 years prior when they were ranked absolutely stellar? Thanks for proving my point.

Och

iTrader: (3)

LOL, Jihad over the Haianddie, just like the good old days.

sorptd

My two cents:

I think one has to look beyond these surveys like CR, JD power etc to get a balanced view of reliability. Toyota/Lexus are in a league of its own when it comes to reliability perception. There is hardly a reviewer (globally) which will not mention stellar reliability and high resale values. They have manged to do that despite a massive line up and they enjoy this reputation globally and consistently year after year.

Honda despite recent hiccups is still perceived higher in reliability by most people than Hyundai/Kia

hyundai / Kia have made progress no doubt but they are midpack in reliability perception in my view.

personally I would have no issue in buying a vehicle from any of these brands or other brands for that matter. It’s just a matter of your priorities, likes/dislikes and timing. Recalls have become part and parcel of this industry and no manufacture is immune to that.

AMIRZA786

Not to get off topic, but the word "Jihad" actually means "Struggle", and is probably the most misused word in the west, thanks to Faux news. Anyway I would classify this as more of a "crusade" LOL

AMIRZA786

I would agree here. I've already made my points earlier in the thread, Hyundai quality has made leaps in bounds, Toyota has the better engines and overall quality, Hyundai and Kia have better tech and where I think they are going to beat Toyota is EV, where they are way ahead. This is just my opinion, which is not up for debate

Och

iTrader: (3)

Love how he says Yandie, lol.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Motorola

Objectively, reliability assessments are the only valid way to measure reliability, because nothing beats a large sample size. Anecdotes and personal experiences only apply to a sample size of 1. Toyota and Lexus continue to have high reliability because that's supported by pretty much every reliability assessment that exists.

Public perception is a worthless tool because it's aligned to personal biases rather than facts, much like political views. Just look at all the dismissals of JD Power in this thread lol.

SW17LS

These arguments are hilarious because people who try and disparage Hyundai and Kia always compare them to Toyota. Nobody is comparing them to Toyota lol. Toyota far and away makes the most consistently reliable cars in the industry. Anybody who says they don’t doesn’t know what they are talking about.

BUT, Toyota and Lexus on the whole make boring uninspired cars that are mainstream and ordinary. Their technology is way behind other carmakers.

I drove them for many years, and I don’t drive them anymore and my replacement, far less statistically reliable vehicles are more rewarding to me as a car enthusiast.

Do I believe Hyundais and Kia’s make more reliable or cars or cars just as reliable as Toyota? No. Would I rather have many Hyundai models over comparable Toyotas? Yes. Even if I wound up having some issues with my Mercedes, would I go back to Lexus? Not unless they started making better cars. If they made a car that truly compared to my S Class I would go back. Even with all the problems I've had with my Pacificas, would I trade it for a Sienna? Not as the Sienna is designed, no. If it had the 3.5L V6, I probably would.

Reliability isn't everything. I really don't even consider Toyota/Lexus vehicles any longer, but I know they are the most reliable cars made by and large.

AMIRZA786

Also as I mentioned earlier in the thread (which is probably lost forever sandwiched between fighting) is Hyundai and Kia actually make affordable, sporty cars like the Veloster N, Elantra N and Kia Stinger GT. Not that I would buy them, but for someone looking for good daily drivers that are actually sporty, the only thing you are going to find with Toyota is the 86, which is not a good daily and is essentially a two seater with a cramped cabin

Motorola

These arguments are hilarious because those who try to equate recalls with reliability don't know what a recall is lol.

SW17LS

They make multiple cars that appeal to me as an enthusiast, where really Toyota doesn't anymore. Even their mainstream family vehicles like the Palisade and Telluride are built with an eye to style and materials and appeal, where the Toyota equivalent is built to be an appliance.

That too lol

A friend of mine got a new VW Atlas and I rode in it yesterday, its a pretty simple model, synthetic leather and manual seats but it occured to me as I was riding in it, I'd rather have that than a loaded Highlander. There's just something about it that is missing entirely sitting in a Highlander.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Whenever I am in an Uber, I can help but notice how Toyota and Hyundai/Kia feel the worst inside. I can't exactly pinpoint why, but comparable Hondas feel a lot better.