1000 miles in, my thoughts on my S560 vs my LS460L and in general...
12-12-20, 02:45 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
1000 miles in, my thoughts on my S560 vs my LS460L and in general...
Like the title says, I am 1,000 miles into my S560's life, and thought I would post some thoughts about the car vs my experience with my many Lexus vehicles.
First of all, I love the car. Love the styling, the ride and drive, the performance and the powertrain. There are a few things I preferred in the Lexus though. Will go through my thoughts.
Ride and drive wise the car is great. Its a little firmer around town than the LS, but I'm still playing with the tire pressures to get to the right place. At speed the car has incredible poise and just glides down the road so elegantly. The car feels tighter and more rigid, in a good way. Interior cabin noise is about the same as the LS, road noise is a little better muted, wind noise about the same (which is not much). I get similar decibel readings along different areas of roadway I drive on a lot (59db or so 75MPH or so). I had a little deformation in the driver side door seal which created a little wind noise, dealer replaced that and the issue is solved. Still playing with the drive controls to see what I like best. I actually like the way it rides in sport mode, where on the LS I never used the sport mode. The drive modes have a significant impact in how the car feels where in the LS they really didnt. I love that theres an individual setting where I can have sport engine and comfort suspension and comfort steering and sport ESC. In the Lexus it was all or nothing. The engine in this is much quieter than the LS460, both at idle and under load. It has a near silent creaminess that reminds me of my LS400 and LS430. At idle you cannot tell its running.
Exterior, paint is very nice but I will give the edge to the LS in ultimate finish quality. The Mercedes has a little more orange peel, and the wheel arches and such aren't finished with trim the way they are on the LS.
Interior, the S is a big step above the LS. Ultimate build quality and solidity is better, where the LS would creak when you leaned your leg against the side of the console and the door (I used all kinds of felt to try and solve that but never could 100%) every material and panel in the S Class is super solid and feels like its been installed to last a lifetime. The leather is nicer in the S, and there are two levels of leather above this. Door armrests are leather in the S vs imitation in the LS. Seat comfort for me was very good in the LS, but the S is on another level. You really need to spend some time with the seats to get them dialed in right, there are so many adjustments to the bolsters and the lumbar and the upper seat, headrest angle its taken me a while to get them dialed in right. Makes it a challenge for a passenger because they don't spend as much time in the seat. We went out to dinner last night and my wife had a chance to get the passenger seat set for her liking, luckily it has 3 passenger memory settings. Ambient lighting is amazing. I also really like the cabin fragrance actually. I do miss the alcantara headliner in the Lexus, and the ML audio, although I am getting more accustomed to the Burmester. Seat massage is awesome, my favorite is the "Hot Relaxing Shoulder" massage. They only run for 10 minutes though.
There are SO many controls and settings, you can tailor so much about the climate control and how diffuse the air is that comes out of it and how it flows and how hot the seat bottoms get vs the seat backs...its overwhelming.
Dealer, so far my experience with the Mercedes dealer has far exceeded my best experiences with Lexus. My dealer had known me for 20 years, and always did right by me but Mercedes is really great. The technician sends a video going over exactly whats wrong with the car, and what the solution is. The service advisors all communicate via text and carry phones so you can reach them directly which is great. Dropoff and pickup experience were both great, loaner was quick and easy. No idea about cost yet, I was amused to see all over the service area they had signs noting that they will finance vehicle repairs, and offer 3 months no interest. Yikes lol. My noise issue the tech started off in the video explaining how the wind moves over the mirrors and how the seals work and how it was a windy day and I was 100% ready for them to blow me off, which is what Lexus would have done, but no he found the irregularity and ordered a whole new set of seals. Caliber of staff seems a step up.
Ergonomics, after having had Lexus vehicles for a long time, this is a huge adjustment. It takes a long time to figure out how to adjust all the settings and operate the wipers, headlights, etc.
Self driving tech, this is awesome. The car literally drives itself. You can sit there for 3-4 minutes at a time and never touch the steering wheel. Handles curves well, doesnt ping pong back and forth. Slide the turn signal over and it moves over a lane when its clear. It sees changes in speed limit and adjusts, it anticipates upcoming curves and slows down. Auto parking works great, and unlike in the Pacifica it works gas, brake changes gears uses its turn signals all on its own. Then it will drive itself out of the space its backed itself into. Very slick. Radar cruise operates much more naturally than it does in the LS. I did turn the lane keep off because its SUPER aggressive. That doesn't impact the self driving.
The headlights are truly the best headlights I've ever had in a car.
On to a few things that surprised me/bug me:
-The windshield has no tint strip up top, and I found that in the Lexus the tint strip always blocked the sun to the point where I rarely ever had to use the sunvisors. In the S I have to use them a ton. I hate the look of aftermarket tint strips, I may have them tint the whole windshield with ClearBlue 80 when the windows get tinted next week to see if that helps.
-When you go into reverse, only the passenger mirror tilts down, unlike both the passenger and driver in the LS (and in my Pacifica).
-Only the driver exterior mirror is autodimming (plus the rearview), the passenger side is not. In the LS both were.
-There is no smog/smell sensor that switches between recirculate and fresh air like in the LS and other Lexus models I've had, going back to the 98 LS.
-Seat belt anchors are manual, vs power in the LS (although in the LS500 those are gone for the LS too)
-The camera system doesnt default to a forward view camera when approaching obstacles from the front. The surround comes on, but the camera to the right is just blank unless you activate it. In the Pacifica both camera systems come on.
-While the virtual gauges are very customizable, there are some frustrating limitations to what can be displayed. For instance, if I want to see the range, I have to dedicate the entire center of the display to the range. There should be a small little area off in some corner where it can display the range.
-Its very ostentatious, and it does make me a little uncomfortable from time to time, where the LS was very anonymous. People look at it, a lot. People make comments a lot, and some of them are a little snide (my neighbors, coworkers etc). I'm sure I will get used to it.
It goes in Tuesday for window tint, will post some pictures once thats done. Apparently we're going to have a foot of snow here Wednesday, so we may get to try out the 4Matic.
All in all, very happy with the car!
First of all, I love the car. Love the styling, the ride and drive, the performance and the powertrain. There are a few things I preferred in the Lexus though. Will go through my thoughts.
Ride and drive wise the car is great. Its a little firmer around town than the LS, but I'm still playing with the tire pressures to get to the right place. At speed the car has incredible poise and just glides down the road so elegantly. The car feels tighter and more rigid, in a good way. Interior cabin noise is about the same as the LS, road noise is a little better muted, wind noise about the same (which is not much). I get similar decibel readings along different areas of roadway I drive on a lot (59db or so 75MPH or so). I had a little deformation in the driver side door seal which created a little wind noise, dealer replaced that and the issue is solved. Still playing with the drive controls to see what I like best. I actually like the way it rides in sport mode, where on the LS I never used the sport mode. The drive modes have a significant impact in how the car feels where in the LS they really didnt. I love that theres an individual setting where I can have sport engine and comfort suspension and comfort steering and sport ESC. In the Lexus it was all or nothing. The engine in this is much quieter than the LS460, both at idle and under load. It has a near silent creaminess that reminds me of my LS400 and LS430. At idle you cannot tell its running.
Exterior, paint is very nice but I will give the edge to the LS in ultimate finish quality. The Mercedes has a little more orange peel, and the wheel arches and such aren't finished with trim the way they are on the LS.
Interior, the S is a big step above the LS. Ultimate build quality and solidity is better, where the LS would creak when you leaned your leg against the side of the console and the door (I used all kinds of felt to try and solve that but never could 100%) every material and panel in the S Class is super solid and feels like its been installed to last a lifetime. The leather is nicer in the S, and there are two levels of leather above this. Door armrests are leather in the S vs imitation in the LS. Seat comfort for me was very good in the LS, but the S is on another level. You really need to spend some time with the seats to get them dialed in right, there are so many adjustments to the bolsters and the lumbar and the upper seat, headrest angle its taken me a while to get them dialed in right. Makes it a challenge for a passenger because they don't spend as much time in the seat. We went out to dinner last night and my wife had a chance to get the passenger seat set for her liking, luckily it has 3 passenger memory settings. Ambient lighting is amazing. I also really like the cabin fragrance actually. I do miss the alcantara headliner in the Lexus, and the ML audio, although I am getting more accustomed to the Burmester. Seat massage is awesome, my favorite is the "Hot Relaxing Shoulder" massage. They only run for 10 minutes though.
There are SO many controls and settings, you can tailor so much about the climate control and how diffuse the air is that comes out of it and how it flows and how hot the seat bottoms get vs the seat backs...its overwhelming.
Dealer, so far my experience with the Mercedes dealer has far exceeded my best experiences with Lexus. My dealer had known me for 20 years, and always did right by me but Mercedes is really great. The technician sends a video going over exactly whats wrong with the car, and what the solution is. The service advisors all communicate via text and carry phones so you can reach them directly which is great. Dropoff and pickup experience were both great, loaner was quick and easy. No idea about cost yet, I was amused to see all over the service area they had signs noting that they will finance vehicle repairs, and offer 3 months no interest. Yikes lol. My noise issue the tech started off in the video explaining how the wind moves over the mirrors and how the seals work and how it was a windy day and I was 100% ready for them to blow me off, which is what Lexus would have done, but no he found the irregularity and ordered a whole new set of seals. Caliber of staff seems a step up.
Ergonomics, after having had Lexus vehicles for a long time, this is a huge adjustment. It takes a long time to figure out how to adjust all the settings and operate the wipers, headlights, etc.
Self driving tech, this is awesome. The car literally drives itself. You can sit there for 3-4 minutes at a time and never touch the steering wheel. Handles curves well, doesnt ping pong back and forth. Slide the turn signal over and it moves over a lane when its clear. It sees changes in speed limit and adjusts, it anticipates upcoming curves and slows down. Auto parking works great, and unlike in the Pacifica it works gas, brake changes gears uses its turn signals all on its own. Then it will drive itself out of the space its backed itself into. Very slick. Radar cruise operates much more naturally than it does in the LS. I did turn the lane keep off because its SUPER aggressive. That doesn't impact the self driving.
The headlights are truly the best headlights I've ever had in a car.
On to a few things that surprised me/bug me:
-The windshield has no tint strip up top, and I found that in the Lexus the tint strip always blocked the sun to the point where I rarely ever had to use the sunvisors. In the S I have to use them a ton. I hate the look of aftermarket tint strips, I may have them tint the whole windshield with ClearBlue 80 when the windows get tinted next week to see if that helps.
-When you go into reverse, only the passenger mirror tilts down, unlike both the passenger and driver in the LS (and in my Pacifica).
-Only the driver exterior mirror is autodimming (plus the rearview), the passenger side is not. In the LS both were.
-There is no smog/smell sensor that switches between recirculate and fresh air like in the LS and other Lexus models I've had, going back to the 98 LS.
-Seat belt anchors are manual, vs power in the LS (although in the LS500 those are gone for the LS too)
-The camera system doesnt default to a forward view camera when approaching obstacles from the front. The surround comes on, but the camera to the right is just blank unless you activate it. In the Pacifica both camera systems come on.
-While the virtual gauges are very customizable, there are some frustrating limitations to what can be displayed. For instance, if I want to see the range, I have to dedicate the entire center of the display to the range. There should be a small little area off in some corner where it can display the range.
-Its very ostentatious, and it does make me a little uncomfortable from time to time, where the LS was very anonymous. People look at it, a lot. People make comments a lot, and some of them are a little snide (my neighbors, coworkers etc). I'm sure I will get used to it.
It goes in Tuesday for window tint, will post some pictures once thats done. Apparently we're going to have a foot of snow here Wednesday, so we may get to try out the 4Matic.
All in all, very happy with the car!
Last edited by SW17LS; 12-12-20 at 02:53 PM.
12-12-20, 02:49 PM
#2
Interior, the S is a big step above the LS. Ultimate build quality and solidity is better, where the LS would creak when you leaned your leg against the side of the console and the door
12-12-20, 02:51 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Hopefully that won't change as it ages. The E Class I had as a loaner had 5k miles and was also very tight
12-12-20, 02:53 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Interesting write up.
was most interested to read what you might now have liked.
something I saw on a S coupe was that the carpet rides up the passenger wheel well? Does it do that for yours
and one thing I think MB lacks for interior design is the side window defoggers. They don’t travel through the door and blow up from the door. Thoughts?
and how is the pano roof?
was most interested to read what you might now have liked.
something I saw on a S coupe was that the carpet rides up the passenger wheel well? Does it do that for yours
and one thing I think MB lacks for interior design is the side window defoggers. They don’t travel through the door and blow up from the door. Thoughts?
and how is the pano roof?
12-12-20, 02:55 PM
#5
There is no smog/smell sensor that switches between recirculate and fresh air like in the LS and other Lexus models I've had, going back to the 98 LS.
12-12-20, 02:58 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Interesting write up.
was most interested to read what you might now have liked.
something I saw on a S coupe was that the carpet rides up the passenger wheel well? Does it do that for yours
and one thing I think MB lacks for interior design is the side window defoggers. They don’t travel through the door and blow up from the door. Thoughts?
and how is the pano roof?
was most interested to read what you might now have liked.
something I saw on a S coupe was that the carpet rides up the passenger wheel well? Does it do that for yours
and one thing I think MB lacks for interior design is the side window defoggers. They don’t travel through the door and blow up from the door. Thoughts?
and how is the pano roof?
Yeah you're right, the defoggers blow from the dash. We'll see how that works vs blowing from the door.
Pano roof is great! Lets in a ton of light, which is nice in the all black interior. Opens up to a big nice opening also. Its been 60 degrees here the past couple days so I've gotten to use it which is nice. No wind buffeting from the roof when opened.
12-12-20, 03:00 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Trending Topics
12-12-20, 03:18 PM
#8
I never even noticed that option before! Thanks!
12-12-20, 03:19 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
12-12-20, 03:59 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Thanks for the write up.
Totally agree with you on the Sport-Engine and Comfort-Suspension settings. That's what I'd probably want, too, if possible. But some vehicles link the sport-suspension to more-aggressive engine settings because the automakers figure that the more potential power you have under the hood (and the earlier the torque-max peaks) the more aggressive you are likely to drive, and the more you will need firmer handling to keep the car under control. That's not the way I drive, probably not the way you drive, but apparently it is for a lot of people....more engine needs more suspension.
As for only the passenger-mirror folding down in reverse, some of that problem should be taken care of by the 360-camera coverage that shows everything around the vehicle.....including parking-space lines next to you. I'm going to have that 360-camera-feature, on my Encore GX, for the first time in any vehicle I've owned, and am looking forward to it.
Don't be surprised that even an S-class Mercedes paint job doesn't match that on the LS. With the possible exception of Audis, almost no one in the industry does a paint job that is smoother/slicker or more glossy than what you will find on the more expensive Lexus products (and some Toyotas). IMO, though, that doesn't necessarly make up for what I see as a general cheapening of many components in Toyota/Lexus vehicles over the last 10-15 years.
On the issue of sun at the top of the windshield, doesn't the S-class have visor-extenders that will pull out and help cover the entire top of the windshield? Check the Owners' Manual if you are not sure, or unfamiliar with how they are released.
It's tough to beat the way that the S-class does unibody-rigidity....although it obviously does it at great engineering cost. It is one reason (among several) why the S-class and Volvo S90 are two of the safest sedans on the market. The bank-vault rigidity around the cabin, plus effective crumple-zones front and rear, absorbs most of the crash-forces.
Totally agree with you on the Sport-Engine and Comfort-Suspension settings. That's what I'd probably want, too, if possible. But some vehicles link the sport-suspension to more-aggressive engine settings because the automakers figure that the more potential power you have under the hood (and the earlier the torque-max peaks) the more aggressive you are likely to drive, and the more you will need firmer handling to keep the car under control. That's not the way I drive, probably not the way you drive, but apparently it is for a lot of people....more engine needs more suspension.
As for only the passenger-mirror folding down in reverse, some of that problem should be taken care of by the 360-camera coverage that shows everything around the vehicle.....including parking-space lines next to you. I'm going to have that 360-camera-feature, on my Encore GX, for the first time in any vehicle I've owned, and am looking forward to it.
Don't be surprised that even an S-class Mercedes paint job doesn't match that on the LS. With the possible exception of Audis, almost no one in the industry does a paint job that is smoother/slicker or more glossy than what you will find on the more expensive Lexus products (and some Toyotas). IMO, though, that doesn't necessarly make up for what I see as a general cheapening of many components in Toyota/Lexus vehicles over the last 10-15 years.
On the issue of sun at the top of the windshield, doesn't the S-class have visor-extenders that will pull out and help cover the entire top of the windshield? Check the Owners' Manual if you are not sure, or unfamiliar with how they are released.
The car feels tighter and more rigid, in a good way.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-12-20 at 04:03 PM.
12-12-20, 06:59 PM
#11
Pole Position
Great comparo writeup of the different features/likes of the two manufactures......
12-13-20, 06:32 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks for the write up.
Totally agree with you on the Sport-Engine and Comfort-Suspension settings. That's what I'd probably want, too, if possible. But some vehicles link the sport-suspension to more-aggressive engine settings because the automakers figure that the more potential power you have under the hood (and the earlier the torque-max peaks) the more aggressive you are likely to drive, and the more you will need firmer handling to keep the car under control. That's not the way I drive, probably not the way you drive, but apparently it is for a lot of people....more engine needs more suspension.
Totally agree with you on the Sport-Engine and Comfort-Suspension settings. That's what I'd probably want, too, if possible. But some vehicles link the sport-suspension to more-aggressive engine settings because the automakers figure that the more potential power you have under the hood (and the earlier the torque-max peaks) the more aggressive you are likely to drive, and the more you will need firmer handling to keep the car under control. That's not the way I drive, probably not the way you drive, but apparently it is for a lot of people....more engine needs more suspension.
As for only the passenger-mirror folding down in reverse, some of that problem should be taken care of by the 360-camera coverage that shows everything around the vehicle.....including parking-space lines next to you. I'm going to have that 360-camera-feature, on my Encore GX, for the first time in any vehicle I've owned, and am looking forward to it.
On the issue of sun at the top of the windshield, doesn't the S-class have visor-extenders that will pull out and help cover the entire top of the windshield? Check the Owners' Manual if you are not sure, or unfamiliar with how they are released.
12-13-20, 06:51 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
12-13-20, 06:57 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yeah they really are. I think it has to do with just brand philosophy and what they consider useful features and not. Its clearly not to save money, because the car is overbuilt in so many ways. Changing the climate vent modes from floor to dash etc you hear the rush of the air and the moving actuators, it is something thats hard to describe but its SO high quality. Watching the panoramic roof unseal and open up and then reseal down again is just so high quality and overbuilt, its like opening the door to a plane...
The thought of having to pay to repair any of that....that would be why the dealer offers financing for repairs LOL
Like the audio, why would you not have a subwoofer in the base audio? Its not to save money its just a german sound philosophy...
The thought of having to pay to repair any of that....that would be why the dealer offers financing for repairs LOL
Like the audio, why would you not have a subwoofer in the base audio? Its not to save money its just a german sound philosophy...
12-13-20, 07:06 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
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Yes, it is interesting how they are built and quality level.. Like I said in your other thread...once you have been bitten by the MB bug, it is really hard to let go and move on from it.
Make you move up the option list.
I know in Canada there is the short wheel base and long wheel base available. I think stateside it is just one wheel base. Car companies do strange things sometimes.
Yeah they really are. I think it has to do with just brand philosophy and what they consider useful features and not. Its clearly not to save money, because the car is overbuilt in so many ways. Changing the climate vent modes from floor to dash etc you hear the rush of the air and the moving actuators, it is something thats hard to describe but its SO high quality. Watching the panoramic roof unseal and open up and then reseal down again is just so high quality and overbuilt, its like opening the door to a plane...
I know in Canada there is the short wheel base and long wheel base available. I think stateside it is just one wheel base. Car companies do strange things sometimes.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-13-20 at 07:13 AM.