MM Ownership - 2021 Encore GX (initial and ongoing updates)
#301
Lexus Fanatic
Yep, we just had a presentation about millennial homebuyers, the largest group of homebuyers is Millennials, and we're fast approaching a point where the largest group of millennials will cross into the age range where the average person buys their first home (33 years old or so), which is very good news for the real estate market.
Its just a function of age, baby boomers are becoming older and they aren't spending money on things like they were and millennials are reaching the beginning of their prime earning and consuming years.
I would prefer a Lexus or Toyota made in Japan or a Mercedes made in Germany, but it wouldnt be a deciding factor for me. For instance I was considering an X7, it made no difference to me it was made in the US vs a 7 Series being made in Germany.
Its easy to have convictions in concept, harder when they cost you money and impact your choices.
Its just a function of age, baby boomers are becoming older and they aren't spending money on things like they were and millennials are reaching the beginning of their prime earning and consuming years.
I would prefer a Lexus or Toyota made in Japan or a Mercedes made in Germany, but it wouldnt be a deciding factor for me. For instance I was considering an X7, it made no difference to me it was made in the US vs a 7 Series being made in Germany.
Its easy to have convictions in concept, harder when they cost you money and impact your choices.
#302
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Buick (inaccurately), for years, was considered a Grandpa/Grandma vehicle, but the fact is that persons of all ages drive them. In fact, older Centurys have been popular with college students because they are cheap and (by American-designed vehicle standards) reliable, particularly with the N/A 3.8L V6.
#303
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
As others also sometimes do, you have mischaracterized what I've been saying. First, I've owned several non-sedans in the past....Plymouth Barracuda (pony car), Subaru Outback (AWD wagon), Chrysler Newport 2-door coupe, Buick Electra 4-door hardtop (non-sedan), and Toyota Celica sport-coupe. Also (briefly) had a Saturn SC-2 coupe. Second, I never said MUST be made in the U.S....I'd prefer UAW manufacture at home, but, if that's not the case, IMO Korean Union-manufacture (like with my Encore GX) is far preferable to Chinese manufacture.
I would also respectfully add, in addition to what I said before, that going from a Miata to a G90 to three different mid-size SUVs (a truck-based Explorer, a car-based Santa Fe, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee) to a mid-size Camry sedan to a Lexus sport-coupe hardly qualifies one to point a finger at others and say that THEY are moving goal-posts LOL.
if a company has a target market of 'anyone' they will lose. no product is ideal for 'anyone' and marketing must be targeted, even if it's multiple large targets.
#304
Lexus Champion
The target market is anyone who will get out their checkbook.
Buick (inaccurately), for years, was considered a Grandpa/Grandma vehicle, but the fact is that persons of all ages drive them. In fact, older Centurys have been popular with college students because they are cheapand(by American-designed vehicle standards) reliable, particularly with the N/A 3.8L V6.
Buick (inaccurately), for years, was considered a Grandpa/Grandma vehicle, but the fact is that persons of all ages drive them. In fact, older Centurys have been popular with college students because they are cheapand(by American-designed vehicle standards) reliable, particularly with the N/A 3.8L V6.
Last edited by LexBob2; 09-20-21 at 06:48 AM.
#305
Lexus Fanatic
The issue is not with trying different types of vehicles, its about saying how people shouldn't do something...and then doing that yourself...without recognizing that has happened. I don't tell people to buy American, because I don't expend any energy trying to do that myself. The reason people give you a hard time about this is you're so adamant that you didn't betray your principles when you have done so all over the place with your buying behavior. Just don't be adamant about it anymore and people will leave you alone about it. You buy stuff built all over the place, including China. Having talked with you on the subject, I would say in reality you own very little that was made in the US. Own that, be real.
Yup, how about that? Millennials are the future, and companies have to focus on appealing to the consumers who are going to keep them alive and relevant going forward.
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-20-21 at 07:08 AM.
#306
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
We'll have to agree to disagree there. You spent a lot of time railing against crossovers and the demise of sedans and suggested that people who leave sedans and buy crossovers were doing nothing but what "auto marketers" told them to do...and then you went and did the same thing you chastised others for doing and traded your sedan on a crossover...and now go on about how its the best vehicle in the world for you. Worst part is...you have no sense of humor about it. At least laugh at yourself...
The issue is not with trying different types of vehicles, its about saying how people shouldn't do something...and then doing that yourself...without recognizing that has happened.
I don't tell people to buy American, because I don't expend any energy trying to do that myself. The reason people give you a hard time about this is you're so adamant that you didn't betray your principles when you have done so all over the place with your buying behavior. Just don't be adamant about it anymore and people will leave you alone about it. You buy stuff built all over the place, including China. Having talked with you on the subject, I would say in reality you own very little that was made in the US. Own that, be real.
So.....not trying to be rude, but I do in fact deal with reality, every day. And, if people want to give me a hard time for it, that's fine.....I'm used to it.
#307
Lexus Fanatic
We'll have to agree to disagree there. You spent a lot of time railing against crossovers and the demise of sedans and suggested that people who leave sedans and buy crossovers were doing nothing but what "auto marketers" told them to do...and then you went and did the same thing you chastised others for doing and traded your sedan on a crossover...and now go on about how its the best vehicle in the world for you. Worst part is...you have no sense of humor about it. At least laugh at yourself...
The issue is not with trying different types of vehicles, its about saying how people shouldn't do something...and then doing that yourself...without recognizing that has happened. I don't tell people to buy American, because I don't expend any energy trying to do that myself. The reason people give you a hard time about this is you're so adamant that you didn't betray your principles when you have done so all over the place with your buying behavior. Just don't be adamant about it anymore and people will leave you alone about it. You buy stuff built all over the place, including China. Having talked with you on the subject, I would say in reality you own very little that was made in the US. Own that, be real.
The issue is not with trying different types of vehicles, its about saying how people shouldn't do something...and then doing that yourself...without recognizing that has happened. I don't tell people to buy American, because I don't expend any energy trying to do that myself. The reason people give you a hard time about this is you're so adamant that you didn't betray your principles when you have done so all over the place with your buying behavior. Just don't be adamant about it anymore and people will leave you alone about it. You buy stuff built all over the place, including China. Having talked with you on the subject, I would say in reality you own very little that was made in the US. Own that, be real.
It is almost impossible not to buy Chinese products, I try/have tried, go to Walmart, Lowes, pretty much every store and look for something not made in China or made in the US, it is almost impossible which is a real shame and it is biting us and will bite us much worse further in the future if we just continue relying on China and everyone else for almost everything in the US.
So how is mmarshall or any of us supposed to buy/own a cell phone or laptop made in the US when they are almost impossible to find, that is what we are complaining about. Just because he has a phone or laptop made in China does not mean he can't voice a opinion about it or not like it, I have a feeling if there was a choice or decent choice he would have the US made or at least Canadian/Japanese/Korean made phone, laptop, car. I have no real issue buying foreign products made in non hostile to the US countries, its the made in China that I don't like and try to avoid but it is almost impossible unless I want to pay a small fortune with most products. I'll never buy a Chinese made car, I will just drive old cars if it comes to that.
#308
Lexus Fanatic
#309
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'm old enough to remember the 1970 GM strike, and even that one did not have the same effect.
Proof of that: post strike you bought a GM crossover that wasn’t even made by the UAW
I used to have that attitude......doesn't matter where it's built, as long as it's screwed-together properly. But, more and more, it's becoming obvious that some auto-workers suffer more than others, under more stringent conditions of harder work and less pay/benefits. I don't want to help support those conditions with my wallet.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-20-21 at 10:26 AM.
#310
Lexus Fanatic
Fewer and fewer people don't share that view (as bit demonstrated, your view has softened tremendously also), and when you get down to millennials who are already the largest consumers for vehicles, and thats only going to grow over the next 10 years as they get well into their 30s and 40s, they really don't care. Debating globalism in this context makes no sense, because it is what it is.
So funny lol. Bottom line too is the vast majority of people have "convinctions" that are just as weak and flexible, so there is no penalty for carmakers making products anywhere.
So funny lol. Bottom line too is the vast majority of people have "convinctions" that are just as weak and flexible, so there is no penalty for carmakers making products anywhere.
#311
Lexus Fanatic
it is true that we all buy a lot of stuff from China at places like Wal-Mart and Target...but, unfortunately, we again don't have much choice, since American companies choose to produce and import so much daily merchandise from there. It's a real shame, but something we have to live with.
So how is mmarshall or any of us supposed to buy/own a cell phone or laptop made in the US when they are almost impossible to find, that is what we are complaining about. Just because he has a phone or laptop made in China does not mean he can't voice a opinion about it or not like it, I have a feeling if there was a choice or decent choice he would have the US made or at least Canadian/Japanese/Korean made phone, laptop, car. I have no real issue buying foreign products made in non hostile to the US countries, its the made in China that I don't like and try to avoid but it is almost impossible unless I want to pay a small fortune with most products. I'll never buy a Chinese made car, I will just drive old cars if it comes to that.
I have never spent $1 in a Wal Mart. I refuse for many reasons, so when I suggest to people that they should support other businesses with better track records on a variety of subjects, I put my money where my mouth is.
I know people that really do try and buy American made products whenever they can and they pay more to do so, those are people that have the credibility to say that.
There is no real clear solid definition of millennial's, to many they are already in their 30's, to some they are in their 40's already so the group that in 10 years will be those ages are a younger generation according to many people, I guess the "Z Generation". I find it corny to group age groups in certain named "generations" especially when most are not clearly defined and seems to skip or encompass multiple generations.
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-20-21 at 11:46 AM.
#312
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
This is a great example. You clearly can afford to buy clothes from places other than Wal Mart and Target that would be made places other than China, but you choose not to because the cost of clothes to you is more important than where they are made. I see nothing wrong with that, but just don't go talking about "buy American" when you can and choose not to. Its hypocritical.
No, he chose a crossover for all the reasons why people choose crossovers, go back to his original thread. He wanted to sit higher up, he wanted AWD, he wanted a smaller vehicle that was easier to maneuver.
And there is a reason WHY conditions have become like that in this area. For several reasons, it has become an economic Mecca, highly-resistant to recession/layoffs, and attractive to people from all over the world....who not only add sharply to the population, but the number of vehicles with them.
I have never spent $1 in a Wal Mart. I refuse for many reasons, so when I suggest to people that they should support other businesses with better track records on a variety of subjects, I put my money where my mouth is.
I know people that really do try and buy American made products whenever they can and they pay more to do so, those are people that have the credibility to say that.
#313
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by UDel
So how is mmarshall or any of us supposed to buy/own a cell phone or laptop made in the US when they are almost impossible to find, that is what we are complaining about. Just because he has a phone or laptop made in China does not mean he can't voice a opinion about it or not like it, I have a feeling if there was a choice or decent choice he would have the US made or at least Canadian/Japanese/Korean made phone, laptop, car. I have no real issue buying foreign products made in non hostile to the US countries, its the made in China that I don't like and try to avoid but it is almost impossible unless I want to pay a small fortune with most products. I'll never buy a Chinese made car, I will just drive old cars if it comes to that.
Great points, UDel. As usual, you have good insight.
#314
Lexus Fanatic
No, doesn't bother me. Only used it when I think it is relevant to what I am discussing. I respect your decision to buy and drive what you want....and for whatever that reason is. You also probably make a lot more than I do, but I don't really consider that my business, just as I don't discuss the specifics of my own pension and account-income.
You can AFFORD not to shop at Walmart. Many people making at or near minimum wage shop there because, in a number of areas, it gives you a lot for your money. It's easy to make big decisions where one's money goes if one has plenty of it.
There are many reasons not to support Wal Mart specifically I can share in another context, Chinese labor isn't one of the main ones I would cite.
I probably would have paid a little more if the GX was available as a UAW-built product....but it wasn't. Still liked the vehicle enough, though, to accept Korean-Union-manufacture.
Like I said before, I don't care where a car is made as long as its a quality car. I stay away from Chinese built and made stuff if only because their stuff is usually crappy, but thats changing and more and more quality and luxury goods are going to be manufactured in China. Globalism.
#315
Lexus Fanatic
Obviously sometimes you can't help it, but you can make choices that you CAN make. Its very easy to buy a car made in the US, you both chose not to. Its very easy to avoid products made in china outside of electronics and things like that. Just look at the labels on clothes and all, and don't shop in places like Wal Mart. My point is...neither of you do that...so you don't have any credibility when you say that people should buy American made products and care about where things are made.
I have never spent $1 in a Wal Mart. I refuse for many reasons, so when I suggest to people that they should support other businesses with better track records on a variety of subjects, I put my money where my mouth is.
I know people that really do try and buy American made products whenever they can and they pay more to do so, those are people that have the credibility to say that.
There is. The oldest millennials are just now turning 40 (1982/1981 is the oldest), all the way down to the group that is now in their mid-late 20s.
It is not easy at all to avoid products made in China aside from electronics, just about everything from staplers, pens, tools, etc is made in China. I wanted to buy US made tools several years ago, every brand that I thought was made in the US was made in China, that goes for power tools too, I had no real choice at the common stores.
I never bought clothes from Wal Mart, most of the clothes I buy are not made in China, one of the few exceptions. Not made in the US but not made in China. Not sure what is so wrong with Wal Mart though compared to most brick and mortar stores, not like the other places carry mostly non China stuff or pay their employees any more.
I have paid more money to get US or Japanese/German made products over Chinese but that has to do with quality too, it is hard to even find Japanese branded products made in Japan.
Different sources have different age ranges for Millenials, there is no official age range or definition. I remember when Kanye West said he was a millennial at some MTV thing and then people were making fun of him saying he was too old to be a millennial but others were saying he was too young to be Gen X so he is more or less a Millennial or maybe in between. I remember in the early to mid 90's I was told I was too young to be Gen X, Gen X generation was people a good deal older then me/you but then as the years went by the definition/range seemed change, some consider our age group Gen X. The grunge bands, NIN, Dr. Dre, etc were considered Gen X bands, the voice of Gen X yet most of them are at least in their mid 50's now, some late 50's, the movie "Reality Bites" was labeled a/the Gen X film, same with "Singles" yet most of the actors/director of those films are in their mid to late 50's so how does Gen X span such a wide age range and millennials seems to span a shorter age range. I don't really identify or care about those age group labels even though they get brought up all the time, kind of don't want to identify or consider myself a millennial because I think it is mostly negative but never really thought I was Gen X either, it is all kind of dumb.