MM Ownership - 2021 Encore GX (initial and ongoing updates)
09-21-21, 08:29 AM
#331
Lexus Champion
I'm assuming that most people who purchase vehicles can read past first-grade level.
People don't look and don't care. On the Pacifica forum there was a whole thread about this saying "we bought our Pacificas because we want to buy American" which is absurd, the Sienna and the Odyssey are WAY more US derived and built here where the Pacifica isn't.
People look at the brand and assume its built here, when in reality if anything foreign carmakers like Toyota and Honda support US labor way more than domestic carmakers today.
People look at the brand and assume its built here, when in reality if anything foreign carmakers like Toyota and Honda support US labor way more than domestic carmakers today.
I mean, at this point, is Chrysler an "American" company anymore?
Last edited by tex2670; 09-21-21 at 08:32 AM.
09-21-21, 08:31 AM
#332
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
True to an extent, in the sense I used it, means just what I said it does. Toyota and Honda do offer jobs and employment in American plants, but not with UAW wages or benefits. (still a heck of a lot better than in China LOL). Part of it is Right-to-Work laws in some states, although the cost of living in those states is often lower than in states where jobs are more heavily-unionized.
09-21-21, 08:34 AM
#334
Lexus Fanatic
True to an extent, in the sense I used it, means just what I said it does. Toyota and Honda do offer jobs and employment in American plants, but not with UAW wages or benefits. (still a heck of a lot better than in China LOL). Part of it is Right-to-Work laws in some states, although the cost of living in those states is often lower than in states where jobs are more heavily-unionized.
Buying a Toyota Rav 4 supports American workers, its built by Americans. Buying a Buick Encore GX does not, its built by Koreans. Thats a fact.
09-21-21, 08:59 AM
#335
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
One also cannot ignore the fact (and you can look up the figures for yourself if you don't believe me) that the domestic companies, particularly GM, had their greatest market share (and made their highest profits) when the UAW was the strongest and most widespread. With the demise of the UAW went the demise of the domestic companies themselves.
09-21-21, 09:03 AM
#336
Lexus Fanatic
We look at generational buying behaviors extensively in my business, there is absolutely a commonly agreed upon age range. There are differences of opinions a couple years on each end but for the most part it’s agreed upon.
Amazon is not great either but they treat employees exponentially better than WalMart. I have a client that has spent his career (he’s an employment attorney) representing people in suits against WalMart. Their practices are on another level from any other employer.
Wal Mart actively works within the government both on a national level and locally in small rural towns that they go into in an effort to stack things against local business owners. They systematically put local business owners out of business by selling products below cost and attracting their workers and then once they reach a certain % of local residents employed they dump their pay while raising prices and then use their status as a prominent indispensable local employer to negotiate even more favorable business arrangements for themselves. Just a despicable company.
Amazon is not great either but they treat employees exponentially better than WalMart. I have a client that has spent his career (he’s an employment attorney) representing people in suits against WalMart. Their practices are on another level from any other employer.
Wal Mart actively works within the government both on a national level and locally in small rural towns that they go into in an effort to stack things against local business owners. They systematically put local business owners out of business by selling products below cost and attracting their workers and then once they reach a certain % of local residents employed they dump their pay while raising prices and then use their status as a prominent indispensable local employer to negotiate even more favorable business arrangements for themselves. Just a despicable company.
Target is known to treat its employees poorly and pay them poorly, many places do, I am sure Wal Mart is the same, maybe a little worse but I don't know why just Wal Mart is singled out like it is really the only one when it isn't.
https://playwickian.com/8675/op-ed/a...-of-employees/
https://www.theverge.com/interface/2...worker-strikes
https://time.com/5629233/amazon-ware...atment-robots/
09-21-21, 09:05 AM
#337
Lexus Fanatic
Its not true to an extent, its true. They are Americans being paid to assemble a vehicle. I don't believe in or support the UAW, I think they have destroyed the American car industry.
Buying a Toyota Rav 4 supports American workers, its built by Americans. Buying a Buick Encore GX does not, its built by Koreans. Thats a fact.
Buying a Toyota Rav 4 supports American workers, its built by Americans. Buying a Buick Encore GX does not, its built by Koreans. Thats a fact.
09-21-21, 09:07 AM
#338
Lexus Fanatic
Poor management ruined the industry. Can't blame the workers. They simply report for work every morning (or in the evening, if the plant is on nighttime or 24-hour shifts) and do their jobs with the parts, tools, and equipment they are provided. True, you have some derelict workers....alcoholics, drug-addicts, sexual-preadators, and those who are lazy, but that is also the case in management.
One also cannot ignore the fact (and you can look up the figures for yourself if you don't believe me) that the domestic companies, particularly GM, had their greatest market share (and made their highest profits) when the UAW was the strongest and most widespread. With the demise of the UAW went the demise of the domestic companies themselves.
One also cannot ignore the fact (and you can look up the figures for yourself if you don't believe me) that the domestic companies, particularly GM, had their greatest market share (and made their highest profits) when the UAW was the strongest and most widespread. With the demise of the UAW went the demise of the domestic companies themselves.
The UAW had a time where they did good work for the industry and for workers, but times change and circumstances change and the time when the UAW was a necessary and valuable entity has come and gone. A lot of corruption in the UAW also, in the past and today. If you look at what non-UAW auto workers earn and what UAW workers earn and the benefits etc and how carmakers that aren't hamstrung by the UAW have been able to grow, its pretty clear. Domestic automakers are fleeing the US with their manufacturing, while foreign automakers are growing the amount of manufacturing in the US, why is that? The UAW is a huge part. You don't see Toyota trying to build vehicles in China and sell them here...you see GM doing that. Toyota can profitably build cars here and not having to deal with the UAW is a big reason why.
I come from a big union background, unions do great things for their people, but they get to a point where they ignore the business realities that manufacturers have to deal with...and the result is no jobs vs reductions in pay and benefits.
At the end of the day, manufacturing leaves the US because its too expensive to manufacture things here. If you want that to stop, you have to make it cheaper...and that requires reductions in labor rates which means people will be paid less. Its this idea that "I can bring your jobs back!" maybe, at half the pay.
Last edited by SW17LS; 09-21-21 at 09:12 AM.
09-21-21, 09:09 AM
#339
Lexus Fanatic
I have heard of many negative stories how Amazon treats their employees and their business practices are just disgusting how they go after chain stores, mom pop stores, out price them where they can't compete, they have put many stores out of business, taken millions of jobs. I temporarily worked at Amazon when Amazon was not the Amazon we know now and it was a mostly negative experience, very odd culture, received threats if I read or talked about a new Harry Potter book, Dbag supervisors. They pay their workers next to nothing while Bezo's hoards billions upon billions of dollars all to himself, he could easily give his employees a significant raise or bonus and still be a multi billionaire and he has the nerve to lecture others about morals, greed, etc.
09-21-21, 09:11 AM
#340
Lexus Fanatic
Poor management ruined the industry. Can't blame the workers. They simply report for work every morning (or in the evening, if the plant is on nighttime or 24-hour shifts) and do their jobs with the parts, tools, and equipment they are provided. True, you have some derelict workers....alcoholics, drug-addicts, sexual-preadators, and those who are lazy, but that is also the case in management.
One also cannot ignore the fact (and you can look up the figures for yourself if you don't believe me) that the domestic companies, particularly GM, had their greatest market share (and made their highest profits) when the UAW was the strongest and most widespread. With the demise of the UAW went the demise of the domestic companies themselves.
One also cannot ignore the fact (and you can look up the figures for yourself if you don't believe me) that the domestic companies, particularly GM, had their greatest market share (and made their highest profits) when the UAW was the strongest and most widespread. With the demise of the UAW went the demise of the domestic companies themselves.
09-21-21, 09:13 AM
#341
Lexus Fanatic
It was both the UAW and Management that hurt American Car companies. Unions may have got those workers a solid middle class to slightly upper middle class wage/healthcare but they also demanded way too much in other benefits, conditions that cost the companies too much money so they cut costs on the cars. Upper management on the company side took too many shortcuts and did not take Japan or Germany very seriously, they were arrogant, over paid, and often corrupt and too involved in politics. That is a recipe for a lot of problems. The workers are not the reason the cars were not very good or had problems, it is the design of the vehicle that is the problem, not the people putting the poorly designed vehicle together.
09-21-21, 09:17 AM
#342
Lexus Fanatic
They overstepped and hurt the companies, I worked at a GM plant and know several who work there, I saw it first hand and many UAW members don't like some of their tactics or cared about what they were demanding.
09-21-21, 09:26 AM
#343
Lexus Fanatic
If the UAW was dissolved today. The entire US auto industry would collapse. Wages would fall. As long as there is free trade with Mexico and the lack of trade barriers with China…the entire car industry would offshore. There is a reason why Tesla and Toyota is ticked off at the incentives for EV credits. Those Chinese EVs plants are of no use at the moment as the UAW has an advantage.
09-21-21, 09:26 AM
#344
Lexus Fanatic
And it directly has contributed to plant closures and domestic manufacturers leaving the country to get away from the UAW.
09-21-21, 09:28 AM
#345
Lexus Fanatic
If the UAW was dissolved today. The entire US auto industry would collapse. Wages would fall. As long as there is free trade with Mexico and the lack of trade barriers with China…the entire car industry would offshore. There is a reason why Tesla and Toyota is ticked off at the incentives for EV credits. Those Chinese EVs plants are of no use at the moment as the UAW has an advantage.
The UAW is causing that offshoring, not stopping it.