tex2670

We had much better economy cars during Saturn's entire existence than Saturn ever was.....

SW17LS

True, we did

Toys4RJill

I would say Saturn is a failed brand. End of the day, it’s not longer around.

When times were really good for GM and they had 30%+ market share and high profits...Saturn was a fun idea

mmarshall

Actually, times weren't that good for GM when Saturn was first formed. They had brought a succession of vehicles (end engines) to the marketplace that were excellent ideas, but poorly-executed and very poorly-built, and the public was leaving them in droves. Saturn was the first time they seriously tried to address that....and it was a brilliant success until they started mismanaging it in the 2000s.

Toys4RJill

Times were good for market share and the high profits. Maybe I’m wrong.

mmarshall

The 60s were generally the best time for GM.....with around 50% market-share. By 1990 (when Saturn was introduced) market share had fallen to around 35%.

Bob04

timmy0tool

iTrader: (7)

i thought the dentless panels were pretty cool, until a minor 'fender bender' cracked them into pieces!

would that be called a 'fender cracker' then?

mmarshall

Yes, they could crack, especially if or when the material got brittle with age. But, especially wth new pieces, they were quite durable. One of the favorite demonstrations the reps used to do at auto shows (and I've done this myself, at their invitation) is to whack the panels with a big sledge hammer., and see how dent-proof they are.

If they did crack with age, though, or from an accident, the nice thing about them was that they were a breeze to replace....on reason why insurance was so cheap on the S-Series Saturns. If you needed a new fender or door panel, you simply unhooked the lights in them, unbolted the panel from the underlying space-frame, and ordered a new panel or fender from the factory. In some cases, you could even order them pre-painted (assuming the color was still available at the factory), in the special Waterborne-paint-process that Saturn used, that allowed the paint to flex with the panels. That meant a lot less work in the body shop....and you got a factory-quality paint job.

mmarshall

I'm almost sorry I opened this thread. Because of it, several people have (now) earned a spot on my Ignore List.

Toys4RJill

Sorry to hear. Just sharing my opinion....personally when a brand is gone from the marketplace, I feel that it failed. Even though the product might be good or well built....sometimes brands don’t work. Scion was a complete and utter failure. I think some brands (like a relationship platonic or romantic) end....so huh. Maybe Saturn was NOT a failed brand, but a brand that had its time and naturally came to expire.

Looking back...the last model they had “The Vue” and “Sky” were nice products.

mmarshall

Doesn't include you, Jill.....you're still on.

The problem with Scion was that, despite some funky-looking designs, they were mostly just redone compact and subcompact Toyota platforms and drivetrains....which, mechanically, did not differentiate themselves from Toyota platforms the way that the Saturn S-Series did from other GM products. Not that there was anything wrong with that, of course, from a reliability standpoint (at that time, and, to an extent, even today, Toyota is tops in reliability)....but, aside from funky-looking bodies and dash/gauge-panels, they were basically just no-dicker/list-price Toyotas.

And, of course, not that there is anything wrong with no-dicker pricing......I'm a fan of it myself, as long as the vehicles are priced competitively to start with.

As to Saturn being a failed brand.....yes and no. They had a smash hit for a whole decade with the S-series, then blew it in the name of GM, well, being GM. Saturn also had a 30-day money-back guarantee on any new vehicle, for any reason, as long as there was no significant damage and the paperwork cleared......Scion, to my knowledge (and you can correct me if I am wrong), never adopted that.

The Sky really tested Saturn's no-dicker policy to the limit. I went and looked at one myself, for a friend who was in the market for a new Pontiac Solstice, and Solstices, at the time, were very difficult to get without a big mark-up. Since Saturn shops, per company policy, couldn't legally charge more than list for the similar Sky, what they did was hang a bunch of profitable dealer-accessories on the Sky and charge for them instead (which was a loophole in the policy). Still was cheaper than the average Solstice going out the door....but it was IMO, a violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of Saturn's list-price/no-dicker policy.

My friend ended up being very fortunate, and, on his own, found a brand-new Solstice, even in the color he wanted (Gray), for list price, plus tax/tags. He called me, and asked me to come down and inspect it. Why the dealership was willing to let it go without a markup, I don't remember clearly (he was a Minister in his church, so he might have had some help from the One Upstairs), but I do remember test-driving it and not finding any defects or visible damage. He took it home that day.

Bob04

There was never a Saturn I would even consider owning over their Japanese counterparts.

tex2670

I had an SL. Not because it was better than Civic Corolla or Sentra—it was cheaper especially with the GM supplier discount I had.

SW17LS

I don't see anything posted in here that would warrant putting someone on your ignore list...just people's opinions...