This guy tells it like it (was) with Saturn.
#31
Lexus Fanatic
When I worked at a GM plant over the summer we were building the Saturn L series sedan, I was never a big fan of that car, it was okay but Accords, Camry's, Maxima's were much nicer.
I made a ton of money that summer, I basically lived at the GM plant working 7-12's getting as much overtime I possibly could, it wasn't bad because I was on final line when I got the over time shift which was mainly parking them, driving them to repair areas, doing final inspections/some fixes.
I liked the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky, made at the same plant, one of the nicer looking 2 doors. I remember getting a ride in a lowered tuned black S coupe with the fold up lights, it wasn't bad looking and pretty quick, not sure what he did to it other then intake/exhaust. A lot of people say the best thing about Saturn was them getting a Honda V6 in the Redline.
Overall the brand nor models never impressed me, I remember the commercials for it in the late 80's and the way they were hyping them up I expected a very groundbreaking car but instead I found it very plain when I read about them, saw pictures, saw them.
I made a ton of money that summer, I basically lived at the GM plant working 7-12's getting as much overtime I possibly could, it wasn't bad because I was on final line when I got the over time shift which was mainly parking them, driving them to repair areas, doing final inspections/some fixes.
I liked the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky, made at the same plant, one of the nicer looking 2 doors. I remember getting a ride in a lowered tuned black S coupe with the fold up lights, it wasn't bad looking and pretty quick, not sure what he did to it other then intake/exhaust. A lot of people say the best thing about Saturn was them getting a Honda V6 in the Redline.
Overall the brand nor models never impressed me, I remember the commercials for it in the late 80's and the way they were hyping them up I expected a very groundbreaking car but instead I found it very plain when I read about them, saw pictures, saw them.
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I made a ton of money that summer, I basically lived at the GM plant working 7-12's getting as much overtime I possibly could, it wasn't bad because I was on final line when I got the over time shift which was mainly parking them, driving them to repair areas, doing final inspections/some fixes.
(I take it that, since you went to the nearby University of Delaware at Newark, you were indeed working at the nearly Wilmington plant.....I know that is at least one of the places where the L-series was built)
Overall the brand nor models never impressed me, I remember the commercials for it in the late 80's and the way they were hyping them up I expected a very groundbreaking car but instead I found it very plain when I read about them, saw pictures, saw them.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-20-21 at 07:02 AM.
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
As for the innovative spin-off transmission filters, I think one or two other non-Saturn vehicles have used them, but, in general, I don't know why we don't see more of them...I don't have an answer for you on that one. They were a superb idea, especially for easy service in the bays, and they couldn't have cost that much more than conventional transmission filters, or else the Spring Hill plant couldn't have used them on the large number of low-priced S-series vehicles that were produced there.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-20-21 at 12:09 PM.
#35
Lexus Test Driver
#36
Racer
iTrader: (5)
There are probably three reasons you don't see the Saturn plastic panels today. One, of course, is cost. Two, the panels don't block out noise as well as metal panels. Three, the fact that plastic panels expand and contract significantly with heat and cold.....which means that relatively wide gaps are needed between them, so doors and fenders don't bind when opening and closing. The average car-buyer probably doesn't care, but auto-journalists tend to pan wide gaps as a sign of sloppy workmanship and poor production-tolerances, even if that is, in fact, not the case.
As for the innovative spin-off transmission filters, I think one or two other non-Saturn vehicles have used them, but, in general, I don't know why we don't see more of them...I don't have an answer for you on that one. They were a superb idea, especially for easy service in the bays, and they couldn't have cost that much more than conventional transmission filters, or else the Spring Hill plant couldn't have used them on the large number of low-priced S-series vehicles that were produced there.
As for the innovative spin-off transmission filters, I think one or two other non-Saturn vehicles have used them, but, in general, I don't know why we don't see more of them...I don't have an answer for you on that one. They were a superb idea, especially for easy service in the bays, and they couldn't have cost that much more than conventional transmission filters, or else the Spring Hill plant couldn't have used them on the large number of low-priced S-series vehicles that were produced there.
The transmission filters were probably good for the service techs, but I could see the do-it-yourselfers being a liability for Saturn or any brand that used this style on their cars. It wouldn't take much to contaminate transmission fluid enough to cause a serious problem. My thinking is that making it easy enough for a casual DIYer to perform introduces a potentially higher risk of damage due to the casual DIYer being a lot less careful than a certified mechanic. I would guess that the risk outweighed the benefit, and that's why we don't see them anymore. This also kind of explains why more and more manufacturers seem to go the way of "sealed transmissions" and no longer identify fluid change intervals for transmission fluid. That's my guess, at least.
#37
Lexus Champion
As I have mentioned before, I owned a 2001 SL2. It was the first car I ever bought brand new. I liked the styling and the available options, such as traction control which, at that time, was quite rare in that class of vehicle. I remember looking at Civics and Corollas at that time and they were considerably more money, so I couldn't afford one of those unless it was a stripper model. I had it for just over 4 years and put over 100k miles on it. Wasn't a bad car by any means, but certainly not flawless either. No real complaints about the power or the way it drove. It was reasonably comfortable and roomy. Lots of cheap interior plastics, though. My head gasket started leaking at 37k miles (1k out of warranty), fuel pump went out at about 85k, and sunroof motor died at 100k miles. I truly enjoyed the car, though some of my nostalgia for it is simply that it was the first car I ever got to buy brand new. I traded in a 1988 CR-X for it, so it definitely felt "new".
My in-laws bought (and still have) an L300, purchased in 2000. The leather seats have not held up well but otherwise the interior is basically okay. Again, lots of hard plastics. Has about 150k on the odo, so it needs some occasional repairs and maintenance, but my mother-in-law refuses to give it up as she's uncomfortable driving their Durango.
I remember when the Ion came out and I went to the dealership to test drive one but remember thinking "what is this thing?" Man, it was just awful.
My in-laws bought (and still have) an L300, purchased in 2000. The leather seats have not held up well but otherwise the interior is basically okay. Again, lots of hard plastics. Has about 150k on the odo, so it needs some occasional repairs and maintenance, but my mother-in-law refuses to give it up as she's uncomfortable driving their Durango.
I remember when the Ion came out and I went to the dealership to test drive one but remember thinking "what is this thing?" Man, it was just awful.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The transmission filters were probably good for the service techs, but I could see the do-it-yourselfers being a liability for Saturn or any brand that used this style on their cars. It wouldn't take much to contaminate transmission fluid enough to cause a serious problem. My thinking is that making it easy enough for a casual DIYer to perform introduces a potentially higher risk of damage due to the casual DIYer being a lot less careful than a certified mechanic. I would guess that the risk outweighed the benefit, and that's why we don't see them anymore. This also kind of explains why more and more manufacturers seem to go the way of "sealed transmissions" and no longer identify fluid change intervals for transmission fluid. That's my guess, at least.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Except for the nice plastic body panels, the Ion was a joke from Day One. Car and Driver, when it first debuted, called it the "Worst new American car in a decade". When I test-drove one, I concurred.
#40
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
An excellent video....I think it deserves a new thread, although I'll defer to the moderators if they want to merge it with a older Saturn thread, or unlock/re-open one of the closed-threads.
Anyhow, although this guy does get a few of the car-spec figures wrong, like the number of plastic panels on the L-series, the spelling/pronunciation of the Aura/Aurora sedan, and omits the plastic-bodied first-generation VUE, I can totally agree with about 95% of what he says....and, in good conscience, I could have made about 95% of this video myself. After owning an SL2 sedan, I still vividly remember my own test-drive of a new Ion and remarking how poorly it was designed. And of the First-Generation VUE, whose electric power-steering and complete lack of feel was like sitting at an imitation steering-wheel on a computer. In general, though, although he was off a little in a few in the individual-model-specs, he was (and is) right-on about what caused Saturn's sad demise.
Having said that, to be honest, I did not think that ALL of the post-S-series Saturn products were junk or inadequate. After looking at, and test-driving, a new Aura sedan, I was impressed with it even though it, like its sister Chevy Malibu, used steel panels instead of plastic. I only had two minor beefs with it...a serious lack of rear-seat head-room (which was largely irrelevant, since I rarely ever carry anyone in back), and the fact that they sold firmer-riding lower-profile tires on the nicer V6 version than with the four. I did, however, consider an Aura purchase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDYBxU2GwU
Anyhow, although this guy does get a few of the car-spec figures wrong, like the number of plastic panels on the L-series, the spelling/pronunciation of the Aura/Aurora sedan, and omits the plastic-bodied first-generation VUE, I can totally agree with about 95% of what he says....and, in good conscience, I could have made about 95% of this video myself. After owning an SL2 sedan, I still vividly remember my own test-drive of a new Ion and remarking how poorly it was designed. And of the First-Generation VUE, whose electric power-steering and complete lack of feel was like sitting at an imitation steering-wheel on a computer. In general, though, although he was off a little in a few in the individual-model-specs, he was (and is) right-on about what caused Saturn's sad demise.
Having said that, to be honest, I did not think that ALL of the post-S-series Saturn products were junk or inadequate. After looking at, and test-driving, a new Aura sedan, I was impressed with it even though it, like its sister Chevy Malibu, used steel panels instead of plastic. I only had two minor beefs with it...a serious lack of rear-seat head-room (which was largely irrelevant, since I rarely ever carry anyone in back), and the fact that they sold firmer-riding lower-profile tires on the nicer V6 version than with the four. I did, however, consider an Aura purchase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDYBxU2GwU
#41
Racer
iTrader: (5)
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
That's fair, but do you agree that spin-on filters could introduce a higher risk of damage due to the casual DIYer being a lot less careful than a certified mechanic (or a "Quick Lube" attendant)? Spin-on filters never lasted long, so I suppose it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. File the idea up on the shelf, right beside the plastic door panel idea.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
At the end of the day, door dings are $100 to have removed with PDR, and are largely mitigated by parking carefully.
#44
Lexus Champion
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
A complicating factor with plastic-body Saturns is that the paint on the plastic panels has to be done by a special process that allows the paint to flex in/out and expand/contract with the panels themselves, as plastic is affected by heat and cold more than steel or aluminum. That is why you have those large panel-gaps that some people (who, in fact, did not know what they were talking about, and were just spouting off) falsely-attributed to poor workmanship and assembly processes. Those gaps allow for expansion/contraction in extreme temperatures without the doors and fenders binding up. That special paint itself is what Saturn called "Waterborne" paint....I'm not an expert on the exact formula or make-up that type of paint, and don't know all of its details, but it results in a mirror-like shine, without orange-peel. Not all body-shops were capable of doing that type of paint-work, and some of them had to be Certified to work on plastic-body Saturns. The good thing, though, was, like I mentioned earlier, sometimes the panels could be ordered from the factory already pre-painted if the color in question was still available at the factory.