This guy tells it like it (was) with Saturn.
#91
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At the end of the day its all a cost benefit analysis. Very few people take their transmission to 500,000 miles, or even want to.
#92
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But I can put the improved lubricants in my old transmission. ![Chicken](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/chicken.gif)
My take, apples to apples meaning no maintenance a modern transmission will probably last longer. With maintenance, I can make an old Aisin tranny go 500,000 miles that ain't gonna happen with a sealed transmission.
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My take, apples to apples meaning no maintenance a modern transmission will probably last longer. With maintenance, I can make an old Aisin tranny go 500,000 miles that ain't gonna happen with a sealed transmission.
^^^^ A great point. All else equal, it's also cheaper for automakers to produce transmission-cases that don't have dipsticks or drain-plugs...they save a couple of bucks on each vehicle.
#93
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#94
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Sealed transmissions die all the time including Toyota. I know of a Camry that went about 150,000 miles before the tranny failed. Wouldn't go into any gear. Car was scrapped this would have been prevented with fluid changes. Fluid wears out from friction and by extension heat there is no getting around this. BTW read the owners manual for many cars it says to service the transmission if you drive in "severe" conditions.
Lifetime fluid is the biggest lie (or really a misunderstanding) yes the fluid lasts the life of the transmission that life is simply shorter.
......oh and CVTs especially die a premature death due to lack of servicing.
Lifetime fluid is the biggest lie (or really a misunderstanding) yes the fluid lasts the life of the transmission that life is simply shorter.
......oh and CVTs especially die a premature death due to lack of servicing.
#95
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150,000 miles is a long time. It all depends on what you consider the operational lifetime of the vehicle. I’ve only owned a couple of cars in my life to or past 150,000 miles. I’ve also had transmissions fail on cars, and they were way newer than that and had transmission fluids changed etc.
#96
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Sealed transmissions die all the time including Toyota. I know of a Camry that went about 150,000 miles before the tranny failed. Wouldn't go into any gear. Car was scrapped this would have been prevented with fluid changes. Fluid wears out from friction and by extension heat there is no getting around this. BTW read the owners manual for many cars it says to service the transmission if you drive in "severe" conditions.
Lifetime fluid is the biggest lie (or really a misunderstanding) yes the fluid lasts the life of the transmission that life is simply shorter.
......oh and CVTs especially die a premature death due to lack of servicing.
Lifetime fluid is the biggest lie (or really a misunderstanding) yes the fluid lasts the life of the transmission that life is simply shorter.
......oh and CVTs especially die a premature death due to lack of servicing.
#97
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#98
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Back on the topic of Saturn please.
#99
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Can you just imagine how a small Saturn CUV, with the plastic body panels and an original Saturn-Type drivetrain (with an AWD option) would sell today? People would be lined up out the front door of the dealership (whoops......Retailer, in Saturn-Speak) to order one or buy one in stock. And, despite the crowds and demand, with the no-dicker policy, everyone would get it for list price and taxes....no markups. And Saturn's original ordering system, from the 1990s, made ordering a piece of cake......each vehicle was custom-ordered with the exact color/options/equipment the customer wanted. Each option was ordered individually....there were no Honda-Type packages where everything was included in one pack, and where you took it or left it. Saturn's (correct) idea was that each customer is different, and each vehicle has to be different to appeal to them.
To some extent, the original first-generation Saturn VUE from the early 2000s filled that role...but the original VUE, despite the nice plastic panels, had some flaws. It did not use the Saturn-designed automatic transmission with the nice spin-off filter. It used a very early-technology electric power-steering system with absolutely zero road-feel.....almost like driving something on a video-screen, or like having the front wheels on glare ice. And its quality-control /reliability was not up to that of the earlier S-series........Consumer Reports gave it a low rating in that category.
But an up-to-date VUE today, combined with better quality control and some of the best of Saturn's earlier design-features, would be exactly what a lot of people are looking for, especially in slanted parking lots where absent-minded people let shopping carts roll downhill into other vehicles.
To some extent, the original first-generation Saturn VUE from the early 2000s filled that role...but the original VUE, despite the nice plastic panels, had some flaws. It did not use the Saturn-designed automatic transmission with the nice spin-off filter. It used a very early-technology electric power-steering system with absolutely zero road-feel.....almost like driving something on a video-screen, or like having the front wheels on glare ice. And its quality-control /reliability was not up to that of the earlier S-series........Consumer Reports gave it a low rating in that category.
But an up-to-date VUE today, combined with better quality control and some of the best of Saturn's earlier design-features, would be exactly what a lot of people are looking for, especially in slanted parking lots where absent-minded people let shopping carts roll downhill into other vehicles.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-28-21 at 04:49 PM.
#100
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Can you just imagine how a small Saturn CUV, with the plastic body panels and an original Saturn-Type drivetrain (with an AWD option) would sell today? People would be lined up out the front door of the dealership (whoops......Retailer, in Saturn-Speak) to order one or buy one in stock. And, despite the crowds and demand, with the no-dicker policy, everyone would get it for list price and taxes....no markups. And Saturn's original ordering system, from the 1990s, made ordering a piece of cake......each vehicle was custom-ordered with the exact color/options/equipment the customer wanted. Each option was ordered individually....there were no Honda-Type packages where everything was included in one pack, and where you took it or left it. Saturn's (correct) idea was that each customer is different, and each vehicle has to be different to appeal to them.
To some extent, the original first-generation Saturn VUE from the early 2000s filled that role...but the original VUE, despite the nice plastic panels, had some flaws. It did not use the Saturn-designed automatic transmission with the nice spin-off filter. It used a very early-technology electric power-steering system with absolutely zero road-feel.....almost like driving something on a video-screen, or like having the front wheels on glare ice. And its quality-control /reliability was not up to that of the earlier S-series........Consumer Reports gave it a low rating in that category.
But an up-to-date VUE today, combined with better quality control and some of the best of Saturn's earlier design-features, would be exactly what a lot of people are looking for, especially in slanted parking lots where absent-minded people let shopping carts roll downhill into other vehicles.
To some extent, the original first-generation Saturn VUE from the early 2000s filled that role...but the original VUE, despite the nice plastic panels, had some flaws. It did not use the Saturn-designed automatic transmission with the nice spin-off filter. It used a very early-technology electric power-steering system with absolutely zero road-feel.....almost like driving something on a video-screen, or like having the front wheels on glare ice. And its quality-control /reliability was not up to that of the earlier S-series........Consumer Reports gave it a low rating in that category.
But an up-to-date VUE today, combined with better quality control and some of the best of Saturn's earlier design-features, would be exactly what a lot of people are looking for, especially in slanted parking lots where absent-minded people let shopping carts roll downhill into other vehicles.
#101
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Interesting thought but it's hard to imagine it is ever going to happen. GM wouldn't be anxious to make the investment for a new division, assembly lines, new dealerships etc. when they can continue to sell Blazers, Trailblazers, Trax and Equinox which are already on the market and available to CUV buyers.
#102
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Interesting thought but it's hard to imagine it is ever going to happen. GM wouldn't be anxious to make the investment for a new division, assembly lines, new dealerships etc. when they can continue to sell Blazers, Trailblazers, Trax and Equinox which are already on the market and available to CUV buyers.
Yes, I agree it is probably more of a pipe-dream than a real one.....but not necessarily impossible. The Spring Hill plant that produced the plastic-bodied vehicles is still in existance (today, it produces the Cadillac XT5/XT6 and GMC Acadia), and most of the old Saturn dealership (oops again....Retailer) buildings are still around, having been sold or leased out to other businesses.
#103
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Like I told LexBob, I agree it is probably a pipe-dream. But one thing the auto industry has taught us is never say never. With the Plymouth Prowler, who ever thought we'd see a factory-designed production 50s-style street rod? Or the PT Cruiser from the same corporation, which mimicked late-30s styling? Or the Chevy HHR, which mimicked a downsized late-40s Suburban? Or a return to Beetle styling by VW....even if it was radically different under the skin? Or a reliable British two-seat sports car in the Mazda Miata? Or Buick selling nothing but crossover SUVs in the U.S. Or mmarshall actually driving one of them LOL?
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#104
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Like I told LexBob, I agree it is probably a pipe-dream. But one thing the auto industry has taught us is never say never. With the Plymouth Prowler, who ever thought we'd see a factory-designed production 50s-style street rod? Or the PT Cruiser from the same corporation, which mimicked late-30s styling? Or the Chevy HHR, which mimicked a downsized late-40s Suburban? Or a return to Beetle styling by VW....even if it was radically different under the skin? Or a reliable British two-seat sports car in the Mazda Miata? Or Buick selling nothing but crossover SUVs in the U.S. Or mmarshall actually driving one of them LOL? ![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#105
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I have to agree here. Hummer is a great example - GM is "bringing Hummer back", but not as a separate division, rather as a model line of GMC. That's the only way I see the Saturn name reviving - as a "Chevy Saturn", or something like that.