SW17LS

At the end of the day its all a cost benefit analysis. Very few people take their transmission to 500,000 miles, or even want to.

mmarshall

^^^^ A great point. All else equal, it's also cheaper for automakers to produce transmission-cases that don't have dipsticks or drain-plugs...they save a couple of bucks on each vehicle.

SW17LS

But where is the proof that doing so reduces the transmission's life?

LeX2K

Sealed transmissions die all the time including Toyota. I know of a Camry that went about 150,000 miles before the tranny failed. Wouldn't go into any gear. Car was scrapped this would have been prevented with fluid changes. Fluid wears out from friction and by extension heat there is no getting around this. BTW read the owners manual for many cars it says to service the transmission if you drive in "severe" conditions.

Lifetime fluid is the biggest lie (or really a misunderstanding) yes the fluid lasts the life of the transmission that life is simply shorter.

......oh and CVTs especially die a premature death due to lack of servicing.

SW17LS

150,000 miles is a long time. It all depends on what you consider the operational lifetime of the vehicle. I’ve only owned a couple of cars in my life to or past 150,000 miles. I’ve also had transmissions fail on cars, and they were way newer than that and had transmission fluids changed etc.

tex2670

Well to be fair, one example of a transmission failing @ 150,000 isn't really "all the time".

LeX2K

If you think that's a one off failure, okay. Talk to any mechanic about lifetime fluid.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Back on the topic of Saturn please.

mmarshall

Can you just imagine how a small Saturn CUV, with the plastic body panels and an original Saturn-Type drivetrain (with an AWD option) would sell today? People would be lined up out the front door of the dealership (whoops......Retailer, in Saturn-Speak) to order one or buy one in stock. And, despite the crowds and demand, with the no-dicker policy, everyone would get it for list price and taxes....no markups. And Saturn's original ordering system, from the 1990s, made ordering a piece of cake......each vehicle was custom-ordered with the exact color/options/equipment the customer wanted. Each option was ordered individually....there were no Honda-Type packages where everything was included in one pack, and where you took it or left it. Saturn's (correct) idea was that each customer is different, and each vehicle has to be different to appeal to them.

To some extent, the original first-generation Saturn VUE from the early 2000s filled that role...but the original VUE, despite the nice plastic panels, had some flaws. It did not use the Saturn-designed automatic transmission with the nice spin-off filter. It used a very early-technology electric power-steering system with absolutely zero road-feel.....almost like driving something on a video-screen, or like having the front wheels on glare ice. And its quality-control /reliability was not up to that of the earlier S-series........Consumer Reports gave it a low rating in that category.

But an up-to-date VUE today, combined with better quality control and some of the best of Saturn's earlier design-features, would be exactly what a lot of people are looking for, especially in slanted parking lots where absent-minded people let shopping carts roll downhill into other vehicles.

LexBob2

Interesting thought but it's hard to imagine it is ever going to happen. GM wouldn't be anxious to make the investment for a new division, assembly lines, new dealerships etc. when they can continue to sell Blazers, Trailblazers, Trax and Equinox which are already on the market and available to CUV buyers.

mmarshall

Yes, I agree it is probably more of a pipe-dream than a real one.....but not necessarily impossible. The Spring Hill plant that produced the plastic-bodied vehicles is still in existance (today, it produces the Cadillac XT5/XT6 and GMC Acadia), and most of the old Saturn dealership (oops again....Retailer) buildings are still around, having been sold or leased out to other businesses.

Toys4RJill

no way GM brings back Saturn. Just like TOYOTA with their Scion brand. GM is making really good money the last little while. Canning the small cars and the big sedans was a good strategic move.

mmarshall

Like I told LexBob, I agree it is probably a pipe-dream. But one thing the auto industry has taught us is never say never. With the Plymouth Prowler, who ever thought we'd see a factory-designed production 50s-style street rod? Or the PT Cruiser from the same corporation, which mimicked late-30s styling? Or the Chevy HHR, which mimicked a downsized late-40s Suburban? Or a return to Beetle styling by VW....even if it was radically different under the skin? Or a reliable British two-seat sports car in the Mazda Miata? Or Buick selling nothing but crossover SUVs in the U.S. Or mmarshall actually driving one of them LOL?

Toys4RJill

I would say never. Car companies bring back models all the time. The Prowler was a model and not a brand like Saturn is. In addition, the Plymouth Prowler actually was rebranded as the Chrysler Prowler at the very end.

tex2670

I have to agree here. Hummer is a great example - GM is "bringing Hummer back", but not as a separate division, rather as a model line of GMC. That's the only way I see the Saturn name reviving - as a "Chevy Saturn", or something like that.