GM to drop ICEs by 2035
01-29-21 | 08:34 AM
#16
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Again, 3 months ago they were part of a lawsuit against Cali emissions regulations. Now, they have suddenly figured out how to convert their entire business to electric in 15 years when they haven't really been successful doing anything electric.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
01-29-21 | 08:39 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by tex2670
Can't tell if you are joking with the winking emoji. My analogy to iPhones had nothing to do with how much electricity they consume. It's the shift in adoption of the technology.
Most of the apps when the iPhone came out were games. No one paid bills by their phones in 2007. No one unlocked their cars or houses. The smartphone technology has caused so many things we do in our daily lives to change in a way that you would not have thought possible in 2006.
And again--I do not believe a public company like GM or a state like CA would set 2035 as a goal like this if they -- looking at all the data, science and industry information that you and I have not studied -- thought it was a "crap shoot" to achieve. They aren't flying by the seats of their pants like we do on internet forums--they are doing the hard work to determine if this is an achievable goal. There's a wide spectrum between "no guarantee" and "crap shoot."
Most of the apps when the iPhone came out were games. No one paid bills by their phones in 2007. No one unlocked their cars or houses. The smartphone technology has caused so many things we do in our daily lives to change in a way that you would not have thought possible in 2006.
And again--I do not believe a public company like GM or a state like CA would set 2035 as a goal like this if they -- looking at all the data, science and industry information that you and I have not studied -- thought it was a "crap shoot" to achieve. They aren't flying by the seats of their pants like we do on internet forums--they are doing the hard work to determine if this is an achievable goal. There's a wide spectrum between "no guarantee" and "crap shoot."
01-29-21 | 08:44 AM
#18
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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on GM's notorious PR and marketing (I never thought much of it myself, despite the fact that I like most of their products)....but just pointing out that, not only with the Impact but the Chevy Bolt, they would not necessarily be starting from scratch.
01-29-21 | 08:54 AM
#19
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Well, GM is smart. Everybody knows green energy is much cheaper. That's why it's gonna takes tens of trillions of dollars to implement. And the hot new idea to tax everyone on every mile they drive isn't paying for that.
But think about that. You are literally going to be taxed for leaving your home. I'm sure GM is looking to get some of that money through government subsidies.
But think about that. You are literally going to be taxed for leaving your home. I'm sure GM is looking to get some of that money through government subsidies.
Last edited by Bob04; 01-29-21 at 09:02 AM.
01-29-21 | 09:02 AM
#20
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01-29-21 | 09:03 AM
#21
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Where is California getting all this money to upgrade infrastructure for them forcing EV's on the population, the middle class/people with money have been/are fleeing Cali in droves so they will want a big government(taxpayer) check of course. It is not just the infrastructure Cali is going to have to upgrade which will cost a fortune, it is also the electric grid, California does not have the electrical grid/capacity to charge millions more EV's and those power needs won't magically come from solar panels, wind mills, or dams. After all that it still won't make any difference with climate and will just create more problems.
Last edited by UDel; 01-29-21 at 09:14 AM.
01-29-21 | 09:05 AM
#22
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Well, GM is smart. Everybody knows green energy is much cheaper. That's why it's gonna takes tens of trillions of dollars to implement. And the hot new idea to tax everyone on every mile they drive isn't paying for that.
But think about that. You are literally going to be taxed for leaving your home. I'm sure GM is looking to get some of that money through government subsidies.
But think about that. You are literally going to be taxed for leaving your home. I'm sure GM is looking to get some of that money through government subsidies.
01-29-21 | 09:13 AM
#24
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Again, 3 months ago they were part of a lawsuit against Cali emissions regulations. Now, they have suddenly figured out how to convert their entire business to electric in 15 years when they haven't really been successful doing anything electric.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
01-29-21 | 09:23 AM
#25
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From: Southeastern PA
Again, 3 months ago they were part of a lawsuit against Cali emissions regulations. Now, they have suddenly figured out how to convert their entire business to electric in 15 years when they haven't really been successful doing anything electric.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
Yeah, nothing but marketing. They know nobody is going to hold them accountable if they change their mind or just flat fail. It's not like they are bound by a contract or something.
I would say they were pressured to make this statement/move and are expecting/getting money/favors to do this and if it doesn't work out they will expect a bailout. It is really pointless to make a statement like that unless you are just trying to appeal to certain groups. EV's aside from Tesla's simply aren't selling so this can be a big mistake if most buyers by then still prefer ICE vehicles, then GM, Ford will be expecting another huge bailout from taxpayers if their EV's aren't selling they spent a fortune on. I also have a feeling they will get a carve out in this mandates/moves to still sell their big ICE Pickups and SUV's. Forced EV mandates are going to create more problems then anything it might help with, it is more about control, power, money, politics, optics then actually solving or addressing anything.
Last edited by tex2670; 01-29-21 at 09:26 AM.
01-29-21 | 09:28 AM
#26
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I don't think it will matter anyway. I think we are headed to a financial collapse that will rival the great depression, and we will laugh about the tens of trillions we were dreaming about spending. It was coming anyway, but COVID and other recent development have accelerated it.
01-29-21 | 09:31 AM
#27
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Where is California getting all this money to upgrade infrastructure for them forcing EV's on the population, the middle class/people with money have been/are fleeing Cali in droves so they will want a big government(taxpayer) check of course. It is not just the infrastructure Cali is going to have to upgrade which will cost a fortune, it is also the electric grid, California does not have the electrical grid/capacity to charge millions more EV's and those power needs won't magically come from solar panels, wind mills, or dams. After all that it still won't make any difference with climate and will just create more problems.
01-29-21 | 09:36 AM
#28
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EVs are much much cheaper to develop than ICE. Thats why you see a gazillion startup EVs springing up. The most expensive part of ICE is the drivetrain development and EVs have that portion already taken care of with off-the-shelf components. The only barrier to high margin is battery cost and Tesla's 4680 cell will drive down cost by 50% at the pack level. Thats $75/kwh which will make it cheaper than an equivalent ICE in a couple years (magic number of equivalency is $100 / kwh). Tesla already has higher gross margins (cost to make vehicle) than most other traditional ICE OEMs. Once you get to scale, EVs are far cheaper.
01-29-21 | 11:14 AM
#29
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Why would California pay for a private sector utility? The utilities will do what they always do and raise debt to build out infrastructure. California also charges an EV tax to offset the gas tax so no money lost there. If there is an opportunity to make a lot of money through additional infrastructure investments economics dictates someone will take advantage of the opportunity it. This will happen.
01-29-21 | 11:27 AM
#30
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From: CA