4th Gen 2022 Acura MDX
05-28-20, 02:11 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
The question was not "are they better than the TLX?" (which we won't know until it reaches dealer lots), but what other luxury sport sedans under $60K we could get with over 350 HP. The G70 and Q50 are the ideal answers- you can throw in the Stinger as well if brand doesn't matter.
I would be shocked to see the TLX be priced the same as the G70, since not only is it a much larger vehicle bordering the G80 in size, but Acura as a brand holds more clout than Genesis currently.
Why not? The RLX started at $55K and went well past $65K for the top-of-the-line SH-AWD. Since it no longer exists, there is no issue if Acura decides to raise the prices of the TLX to that level- and who is to stop them when the car has already grown to be a midsizer?
I expect to see the new TLX start just a bit under $40K and go well up near $70K for the Type S, which puts it somewhere near the new Genesis G80. We'll have to wait and see.
I would be shocked to see the TLX be priced the same as the G70, since not only is it a much larger vehicle bordering the G80 in size, but Acura as a brand holds more clout than Genesis currently.
Why not? The RLX started at $55K and went well past $65K for the top-of-the-line SH-AWD. Since it no longer exists, there is no issue if Acura decides to raise the prices of the TLX to that level- and who is to stop them when the car has already grown to be a midsizer?
I expect to see the new TLX start just a bit under $40K and go well up near $70K for the Type S, which puts it somewhere near the new Genesis G80. We'll have to wait and see.
RLX didn't sell, it was one of the worst selling cars in its class where it was priced plus the SHawd was a very complicated hybrid system, it is also made in Japan which adds cost compared to being made in the US. TLX will likely start in mid to upper 30's, no way they are going to price the Type S anywhere near 70K, that is M3 territory. Type S's never carried a huge premium in Acura's or Honda's. The G80 V6 is priced too high, I think it is going to hurt sales and they will likely have to resort to some aggressive discounting to move them.
05-28-20, 02:14 PM
#92
05-28-20, 02:17 PM
#93
Lexus Test Driver
Who says sedans are dead...
05-28-20, 02:32 PM
#94
Size does not always determine price, look at the ES, pretty large yet lower price then many other lux sedans. I don't think Acura is going to price it much higher then a G70, they know once they start hitting higher prices for sedans buyers get turned off.
RLX didn't sell, it was one of the worst selling cars in its class where it was priced plus the SHawd was a very complicated hybrid system, it is also made in Japan which adds cost compared to being made in the US. TLX will likely start in mid to upper 30's, no way they are going to price the Type S anywhere near 70K, that is M3 territory. Type S's never carried a huge premium in Acura's or Honda's. The G80 V6 is priced too high, I think it is going to hurt sales and they will likely have to resort to some aggressive discounting to move them.
RLX didn't sell, it was one of the worst selling cars in its class where it was priced plus the SHawd was a very complicated hybrid system, it is also made in Japan which adds cost compared to being made in the US. TLX will likely start in mid to upper 30's, no way they are going to price the Type S anywhere near 70K, that is M3 territory. Type S's never carried a huge premium in Acura's or Honda's. The G80 V6 is priced too high, I think it is going to hurt sales and they will likely have to resort to some aggressive discounting to move them.
You are right that the RLX didn't sell well, but that's because the starting price was incredibly high to begin with, and the car was already dated and uncompetitive on arrival. Since it's gone, the TLX has room to grow to that price level without worrying about overlapping the RLX, especially now that its size steps on the toes of the RLX. And with the RLX, it's not about the car not selling well, but how Acura perceived themselves price-wise in that segment.
M3 starts at $70K- add some options and you'll go past $90K. M340i would be a better comparison, but you can spec that up above $70K too. And like the G70, it's a much smaller vehicle than the new TLX. Compare the TLX to a 540i, which is roughly the same size, and $70K is peanuts.
TLX will definitely get crushed if it decides to compete as a full-on midsize sedan with pricing above the Genesis G80 and below the Germans in that segment, but as a tweener priced like the CT5, it has some chance to succeed.
Last edited by Motorola; 05-28-20 at 03:01 PM.
05-28-20, 03:14 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
The ES shares a platform and engine with the Avalon, and isn't particularly designed for handling, and with an interior built to a budget. The new TLX has its own brand-bespoke platform, has a brand bespoke turbo V6, has double wishbones instead of struts, and has an interior that looks like it uses better materials (even though the layout is polarizing). Nevermind the availability of SH-AWD. It's a much higher-tier vehicle than the ES.
You are right that the RLX didn't sell well, but that's because the starting price was incredibly high to begin with, and the car was already dated and uncompetitive on arrival. Since it's gone, the TLX has room to grow to that price level without worrying about overlapping the RLX, especially now that its size steps on the toes of the RLX.
M3 starts at $70K- add some options and you'll go past $90K. M340i would be a better comparison, but you can spec that up above $70K too. And like the G70, it's a much smaller vehicle than the new TLX. Compare the TLX to a 540i, which is roughly the same size, and $70K is peanuts.
TLX will definitely get crushed if it decides to compete as a full-on midsize sedan with pricing above the Genesis G80 and below the Germans in that segment, but as a tweener priced like the CT5, it has some chance to succeed.
You are right that the RLX didn't sell well, but that's because the starting price was incredibly high to begin with, and the car was already dated and uncompetitive on arrival. Since it's gone, the TLX has room to grow to that price level without worrying about overlapping the RLX, especially now that its size steps on the toes of the RLX.
M3 starts at $70K- add some options and you'll go past $90K. M340i would be a better comparison, but you can spec that up above $70K too. And like the G70, it's a much smaller vehicle than the new TLX. Compare the TLX to a 540i, which is roughly the same size, and $70K is peanuts.
TLX will definitely get crushed if it decides to compete as a full-on midsize sedan with pricing above the Genesis G80 and below the Germans in that segment, but as a tweener priced like the CT5, it has some chance to succeed.
70K is not peanuts, that is about twice the avg. price for a new car in the US.
05-28-20, 11:21 PM
#96
Lexus Test Driver
Mazda has never pushed hp in their vehicles, I doubt the inline 6 in the Mazda will be pushing anywhere near 350 or more hp, they ware going to try to keep prices reasonable too considering it will be sold as a mainstream Mazda. Perhaps in the future there may be some special edition with around that power but that might be a ways off.
This engine is also rumored to be used in next gen IS and RC if Lexus/Toyota is funding the R&D for Mazda.
Good try by Acura and nice to have another option for well designed sedan. I just don’t like making the TypeS limited model that will probably be unicorn on the street. Hope im wrong on this.
If they can keep prices in low to mid 40s for 4cyl Aspec - they will do very well.
Lots of competition in this segment - ES, G80, CT5, 3series etc
05-28-20, 11:51 PM
#97
can't escape the bigass front overhang of FWD cars.
even if they lengthened the car just to incorporate dash-axle distance.
the cabin is probably cramped since they had to push everything rearward.
even if they lengthened the car just to incorporate dash-axle distance.
the cabin is probably cramped since they had to push everything rearward.
05-29-20, 03:33 AM
#98
Pole Position
05-29-20, 04:36 AM
#99
I'd be very surprised if the Type S pushes over $60K. They stated standard TLX will start mid $30's. Those at Acura know that they're still a rung (or two) below the likes of Audi. So I'd expect to see Type S start below where S4 starts, which starts just under $50K.
05-29-20, 06:56 AM
#101
Lexus Test Driver
I think the Type S needs to be fully equipped at $50k or its not going to attract a lot of customers. Horsepower is cheap these days so if their base engines are at 270hp and starts at ~$35k, how can the Type S be much more than that? The Audi is a much more premium brand and can charge way more. This puts a lot of pressure on the refreshed Lexus IS for sure.
05-29-20, 07:24 AM
#102
Lexus Champion
I think the Type S needs to be fully equipped at $50k or its not going to attract a lot of customers. Horsepower is cheap these days so if their base engines are at 270hp and starts at ~$35k, how can the Type S be much more than that? The Audi is a much more premium brand and can charge way more. This puts a lot of pressure on the refreshed Lexus IS for sure.
05-29-20, 07:25 AM
#103
05-29-20, 07:54 AM
#104
The current TLX Advance SH-AWD V6 MSRP tops out at $47,375, There are also HUGE incentives that have been on TLX for a while, so most of these transact below $40K. Acura Could conceivably have the Type S start below $50K easily, with a top version maxing out maybe low to mid $50's and also not have huge discounts necessary.
05-29-20, 08:00 AM
#105
Just built a 2020 TLX, V6, Advance pkg, AWD. Tops out at 46,350 before any dealer add-ons. Would not be surprised if Acura prices the Type S around 49k, keeping it under the 50k threshold. Also, like Honda, Acura currently doesn't really have a lot of stand alone options like other manufacturers. Type S options will probably be limited to wheels and a few other visual effects.