According to Jalopnick, Lexus going full electric.
02-02-21 | 08:47 PM
#106
and RNM GS3 - i know you're in NYC which has a very unique set of circumstances. driving and parking there SUCKS no matter what the propulsion system.
it's just not a car friendly place at all and frankly much more should be done to discourage car ownership there. clogging up tight streets with chargers and EVs is no solution so i hear ya there.
still, with NYC's current multitude of other issues it's likely enough people will leave that population density will become lighter anyway!
it's just not a car friendly place at all and frankly much more should be done to discourage car ownership there. clogging up tight streets with chargers and EVs is no solution so i hear ya there.
still, with NYC's current multitude of other issues it's likely enough people will leave that population density will become lighter anyway!
02-02-21 | 08:57 PM
#108
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 992
Likes: 64
From: NJ
You should do some research into how recycling works. Absolutely hybrid and EV batteries are recycled. That doesn’t mean the old batteries are reused lol. The batteries are broken down and their raw materials are recycled and used to make new batteries.When you recycle a milk jug, they don’t clean it and fill it up with milk and put it back on the shelf LOL
02-02-21 | 09:22 PM
#109
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 523
Likes: 169
From: Alberta
What you are not accounting for is that battery development for cars is still in its infancy. The current battery tech is just an evolution of the standard Li-ion Duracell battery with modification. The next 4680 cells are the next generation and to be produced this year. It will be able to get over 500 miles of range with 1,100hp and be ready to charge 200 miles in 15 minutes. That is on a 400V architecture which has limitations. If you employ an 800V architecture, you'll get 400 miles in 15 minutes or 200 miles in less than 10 minutes and this is technology they currently have. The next generation solid states will be even better. Once you take away ICE advantage of range and infrastructure, it really has no practical advantage over a BEV which naturally has better NHV, efficiency, performance, and reliability. Its a decidedly far superior technology.
Where I live EV’s loose 40% of their range for 1/2 the year. Maybe the new battery technology resolves this issue
02-02-21 | 09:30 PM
#110
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,405
Likes: 497
From: Ca
It's not news, but look at how excited Steve is on the topic of TMC & electrification - many of us want TMC to electrify, because we don't want to drive BEV's with no turn indicators, no sun visors, no cup holders, low rear seat bases with knees pointing up to the sky, and poor quality of manufacture & poor quality of assembly etc etc.
02-02-21 | 09:32 PM
#111
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 228
From: CA
Originally Posted by winterturb
if what you say is true and if it can handle enough cycles and extreme climate variations and its cost effective than I have a lot of crow to eat. Any good recipes?
Where I live EV’s loose 40% of their range for 1/2 the year. Maybe the new battery technology resolves this issue
Where I live EV’s loose 40% of their range for 1/2 the year. Maybe the new battery technology resolves this issue
02-02-21 | 10:32 PM
#112
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,062
Likes: 3,169
From: Alberta
Biggest and most profitable manufacturer is biggest and most profitable manufacturer because it globally caters to wide range of audiences... They will have a mix of petrol, full hybrid, diesel, phev and bev + fcev for a long time to come. Depending on market, mix will be different.
02-03-21 | 10:09 AM
#113
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 73
From: New York
How many clients have you represented in the purchase of a gas station? We've represented 2. Gas stations 100% unequivocally make the bulk of their profit from sales of items other than fuel. Most have agreements with fuel suppliers where those fuel suppliers make the bulk of the revenue from fuel sales, and most operators of fuel stations actually dont even own the land or the station at all, they just have a license to operate it and pay the owner a use fee (kind of like sharecropping). Some independent fuel stations that are unbranded make more from fuel because they source their supply themselves and cut out the big fuel service conglomerate, but 99% of the big name stations operate this way, net profit is about 3 cents per gallon of gas.
Sorry, but you are just not correct here. Any gas station owner would welcome the addition of electric chargers if it would make them money. Unlike fuel which invoilves an extremely expesnive distributor who takes all the revenue, EV charging stations wont require that and longer wait times mean they can sell food and stuff from a store, etc.
Theres even the possibility that a third party could establish EV chargers and simply rent from the owner or operator of the station. This is common with gas station carwashes, someone else owns and operates the carwash equipment and they just lease the tunnel from the station.
Well you should go work for all of these carmakers, because they all mysteriously are setting similar dates that are 15-20 years from now.
Sorry, but you are just not correct here. Any gas station owner would welcome the addition of electric chargers if it would make them money. Unlike fuel which invoilves an extremely expesnive distributor who takes all the revenue, EV charging stations wont require that and longer wait times mean they can sell food and stuff from a store, etc.
Theres even the possibility that a third party could establish EV chargers and simply rent from the owner or operator of the station. This is common with gas station carwashes, someone else owns and operates the carwash equipment and they just lease the tunnel from the station.
Well you should go work for all of these carmakers, because they all mysteriously are setting similar dates that are 15-20 years from now.
I looked at financials of several large family gas operators over the years - they all owned the land. Running a single station- i can see how that could be very difficult to scale where gas profits are meaningful.
Nobody is saying they won’t welcome another revenue stream but why would Shell for example allow a charging station at their gas location. I imagine this would violate the contract terms with the operator.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-03-21 at 10:12 AM.
02-03-21 | 10:28 AM
#114
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: VIC
Hybrid Eel
I bet its mostly hybrid. It seems Toyota thinks BEV isn't the future as the CEO seems against it. I bet the entire lineup is hybrid and will only have 1 BEV as an experiment. I hope they develop a more performance hybrid in their sport offerings. The current hybrids are dreadfully slow.
02-03-21 | 10:44 AM
#115
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 228
From: CA
Im not from the US so I can’t speak for the US but in some parts of the world Hydrogen is really starting to take over the renewables conversation. What I would really like to see is some sort of Electric / Hydrogen hybrid ... that will solve a lot of the infrastructure issues because hydrogen can be pumped at a station just like gas and well then you can have a hybrid... I’m not so sure about Full electric cos of range , even if it’s 500 KM... I live in Australia .. the distance between two major cities is 1000kms or there about .. and there’s nothing in the middle of that commute so charging stations won’t happen ...
02-03-21 | 10:56 AM
#116
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,062
Likes: 3,169
From: Alberta
02-03-21 | 11:33 AM
#117
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,486
Likes: 166
From: NY
That's where solar comes in. People can charge their cars if the chargers are solar powered and can store it in a small battery to recharge the EVs.
02-03-21 | 11:39 AM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,376
Likes: 2,793
From: Maryland
If you think the utility companies and local/state government will not have their hand in the cookie jar to take the $$$ for these charging stations- you are kidding yourself. Somehow the lost gas tax revenue needs to be replaced.....
I looked at financials of several large family gas operators over the years - they all owned the land. Running a single station- i can see how that could be very difficult to scale where gas profits are meaningful.
Nobody is saying they won’t welcome another revenue stream but why would Shell for example allow a charging station at their gas location. I imagine this would violate the contract terms with the operator.
I looked at financials of several large family gas operators over the years - they all owned the land. Running a single station- i can see how that could be very difficult to scale where gas profits are meaningful.
Nobody is saying they won’t welcome another revenue stream but why would Shell for example allow a charging station at their gas location. I imagine this would violate the contract terms with the operator.
My local Shell station has a burrito restaurant and a dry cleaners. Shell has nothing to do with that.
02-03-21 | 12:03 PM
#119
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,331
Likes: 73
From: New York
Shell doesn’t have to allow it. Gas operators are allowed to operate related businesses on their property, washes, stores, repair shops, vacuums, air stations, ATMs etc. What they can’t do is sell another brand of fuel.
My local Shell station has a burrito restaurant and a dry cleaners. Shell has nothing to do with that.
My local Shell station has a burrito restaurant and a dry cleaners. Shell has nothing to do with that.
Charging stations in no way will help Gas sales therefore the Gas companies will not be so welcoming to them.
02-03-21 | 01:20 PM
#120
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 58,376
Likes: 2,793
From: Maryland
And gas companies are going to get in on this too as soon as there is money to be made.