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On the contrary...I watched a show with some GM engineers in an interview...they claim the very first year is the best and most complete edition of an automotive product. After the first year, stuff gets cut out...(very little at a time) My 4R V8 still has the aluminum intake whereas they cheapened out and went to plastic later.....the 2007-2010 Tundra had those nice little door courtesy lights...they were then quietly omitted on a model year refresh...Tundra in 07 had optitron gauges and then just sent to a cheaper back lit LED set in 2013
Those are two different issues. You're correct that they do start to take little things away (I saw the same show I believe) but it is also true that they tend to work out bugs as the product line goes along and that later cars in a generation tend to be more reliable,
Is there any truck out there that has a pano roof?
My 5th Generation (2019) Ram 1500 does.
Originally Posted by gadgetman1
They have a moonroof, but not a panoramic roof. They are making this silly crap sound like it’s a big deal & it’s completely silly. I really don’t want a panoramic sunroof in the hot, southwest sun. I keep the shade closed on my moonroof in the summer, but you can’t block out a panoramic roof. Toyota is just trying to polish a turd & add lipstick
My pano sunroof in my ram has a sunshade that blocks 100% of light and allows no more heat transfer than a solid headliner. I have had the trucks with and without pano roof and with the roof and shade closed, the only difference is one you can open, and one you cant.
Originally Posted by gadgetman1
I’m talking completely closing the shade, so that no light or heat comes through. I haven’t seen any pickups with a pano that can do that.
Haven't seen one on a new model Ram 1500 then.
Originally Posted by gadgetman1
I was told by a tint shop that sun roofs should never be tinted, as they trap the heat & can explode. I don’t know if that’s true, but I haven’t seen any aftermarket sunroof/panoramic roof tints that were not factory, ever. I love the sunshine, but not all the time, while I’m driving. I’m really tired of paying for crap I don’t want on any vehicle.
I put 5% ceramic on mine. Been fine in the TX sun for 3 years. I have tinted every sunroof I have ever had. Never an issue. Manufacturing has come a long way. In the 80's and 90's it was true. Modern glass is nearly 100% flawless. The flaws in the glass from the manufacturing process CAN cause one to shatter, glass manufacturing has changed in the last 2 decades. Glass used to get brittle with age, but most sunroof/moonroof panels now are double pane, laminated glass, you could hit them with a hammer and most often (unless you hit it just right) it will just bounce off. My truck went through a hailstorm last spring, dents everywhere, Pano roof was just fine. Golfball to baseball-sized hail, $23,000 in damage, not one piece of glass was even nicked.
My pano sunroof in my ram has a sunshade that blocks 100% of light and allows no more heat transfer than a solid headliner. I have had the trucks with and without pano roof and with the roof and shade closed, the only difference is one you can open, and one you cant.
Haven't seen one on a new model Ram 1500 then.
I put 5% ceramic on mine. Been fine in the TX sun for 3 years. I have tinted every sunroof I have ever had. Never an issue. Manufacturing has come a long way. In the 80's and 90's it was true. Modern glass is nearly 100% flawless. The flaws in the glass from the manufacturing process CAN cause one to shatter, glass manufacturing has changed in the last 2 decades. Glass used to get brittle with age, but most sunroof/moonroof panels now are double pane, laminated glass, you could hit them with a hammer and most often (unless you hit it just right) it will just bounce off. My truck went through a hailstorm last spring, dents everywhere, Pano roof was just fine. Golfball to baseball-sized hail, $23,000 in damage, not one piece of glass was even nicked.
Well, the Ram is probably the best looking pickup of the entire herd, but if you get a bad one (like I did), you will need a lemon law attorney. I’m waiting for the Ford F-150 electric & the new Nissan Frontier. Those are the only trucks I would consider & many things will need to change before I buy anything. Just FYI, most dealers have no loaner cars now & rental cars are as thin as hens teeth. This is not a good time in the automotive world.
List of Toyota Model Changes and Dates of Introduction Through 2024!
Unfortunately, I often keep seeing a lot of ignorant comparisons on the 2022 Tundra to other trucks out there, which imply Toyota outright copied their competition and find it to be very lazy thinking. It is mostly Tacoma and 4Runner they borrowed from.
Time wise, Toyota on these lead TNGA-F vehicles, had very high ;lead times, which allegedly required final design work to be completed 3 years ahead of intended launch. This has become their modus operandi, to ensure quality.
This vehicle, developed under 780B (early pseudo-code 954A) for half a decade now, was set for August 2020 start of production at TMMTX, outside of San Antonio for 2021 model year. Final styling of this truck from what I learned, rounded up toward the end of 2017.
About the same time, 2021 Ford F-150 final design was photographed and approved on November 17, 2017 at 4:07 PM in Dearborn, MI (have concrete proof of mine).
Beat the new Tundra to market with a half-ton twin-turbo hybrid, launching in December 2020. Took us 37 months from final design to showroom at the end of 2020. For Toyota, they had a similar timeline planned and fell behind EXTREMELY.
Sometime during 2019, after the 780B program's 2018 design freeze (designer's point of no return), all TNGA-F vehicles were subject to delays in a domino effect. Meaning the 2021 Land Cruiser became a 2022 model, 2021 Tundra redesign became a 2022 model. 2022 Sequoia became a 2022.5 (called 2023MY), 2022 4Runner became a 2023 model**, and 2023 Tacoma became a 2024MY.
Problem, is Toyota had already designed the truck and signed off the body well before that point. The styling has not been changed much at all, since at least being dialed in almost 4 years ago. Remember, the idea was for this to be in showrooms 15 months earlier than the end result due to multiple delays. Ditto for several others in development. The next 4Runner WILL NOT BE A 2023 MODEL ANYMORE! It has been delayed 16-18 months.
Now, I am going to list a trajectory of dates and etc, because I am rather pissed off that a lot of news media, websites, forum reporters, and YouTube clowns, have not picked up on certain insight and provided info on WHEN to expect all these redesigns. I have honestly been talking about TNGA-F since 2016 and no one else made any mention of it until 2019-2020. News seems to travel slowly unfortunately, being that Toyota finally confirmed it in May 2021. Might address Lexus at another date.
Top down from largest to smallest.
2022 MY (USA/CAN only)
2022 Sequoia
Phased out by February 2022.Ordering has now closed, short MY in anticipation of MY2023 redesign. Now in dealers.
2022 Tundra
Fully redesigned on all-new TNGA-F architecture.
Developed under 780B and co-engineered between Toyota Technical Center Ann Arbor MI and Toyota Global HQ Aichi Japan..
Launch date January 2022 for V35A-FTS Version
TT Hybrid Spring 2022
2022 Land Cruiser
300-Series will not be offered stateside in Toyota stores
Nameplate replacement under indefinite review since at least 2019
2022 Sienna
Carryover, in dealers October 2021
2022 Mirai
Carryover, in dealers October 2021
2022 Avalon
Carryover, in dealers this month.
2022 Highlander
Minor changes, in dealers November 2021
2022 4Runner
Moderate changes, in dealers by October 1, 2021 (In Transit)
2022 Tacoma
Moderate changes, in dealers by October 1, 2021
Some are in Transit from TMMGT MX
Plant Changeover from Texas TMMTX to TMMGT Guanajuato
2022 Camry
Carryover, in dealers this month
2022 Venza
Carryover, in dealers February 2022
2022 RAV4
MMC In dealers January 2022
2022 RAV4 Prime
MMC, in dealers February 2022
2022 C-HR
TBA in dealers February 2022
2022 Prius
Already In dealers
Last MY
2022 Corolla Cross
All new compact crossover I hinted at 2 years ago
In dealers October 2021 (as stated 2 years ago)
2022 Corolla Hatchback
Carryover, now in dealers
Last Pre-MMC year
2022 Corolla Sedan
Carryover, already in dealers
Last Pre-MMC year
MY 2023:
2023 Sequoia
Redesigned on TNGA-F and developed under 660B Program.
All New Engines and more
Built in Texas at TMMTX factory outside of San Antonio
Arrives in dealers in February 2022
2023 Tundra
TBD, arrives in dealers September 2022
2023 Camry
Arrives in September 2022
2023 4Runner
Carryover, arrives in October 2022
2023 Tacoma
Carryover, arrives in October 2022
Last MY of N300 Pickup launched in September 2015 and MMCed Fall 2019
2023 Corolla Hatch
MMC, with GR performance version
Arrives in dealers in October 2022
2023 Sienna
Minor changes, arrives in dealers in October 2022
2023 C-HR
TBD, arrives in dealers in October 2022
2023 Highlander
MMC, arrives in November 2022
2023 Corolla Sedan
MMC, arrives in November 2022
2023 RAV4 Prime
Carryover, Arrives in November 2022
2023 Venza
TBD/Minor changes, arrives in December 2022
2023 RAV4
Arrives in December 2022
2023 Corolla Cross
Carryover, arrives in December 2022
2023 BZ4x
All new Toyota EV co-engineered with Subaru, launching Q4 2022.
2023 Mirai
TBD, arrives in February 2023
2023 Prius
All new?, arrives in February 2023
MY2024
2024 Tacoma
All-new on TNGA-F, Launching October 2023
Will update with more later
2024 Camry
Considered Major Model Change, utilizing a modified TNGA-K basis
Being developed solely at Toyota Technical Center Ann Arbor
Expect evolutionary changes.
2023 Launch
2024 1/2 4Runner
All-new redesigned 4Runner, on TNGA-F
In development since 2017 and delayed until spring 2024 from October 2022 launch.
Will move to TMMGT in Mexico, from Tahara Japan factory.
Will utilize turbo-4 and turbo-4 mated to THS.
2024 Tundra
2024 Sequoia
2024.5 Land Cruiser
2024 Corolla Cross
2024 Corolla Hatch
2024 Corolla Sedan
2024 Mirai
2024 Prius
2024 BZ4x
2024 Sienna
2024 Venza
All of these dates above are subject to change during this pandemic and chip shortage, affecting factory output and delivery chains. I will update it when necessary.
KEY:
All new model or new addition, major model change on existing basis, Midcycle Model Change, Minor Changes or carryover.
Originally Posted by ArmyofOne
My 5th Generation (2019) Ram 1500 does.
My pano sunroof in my ram has a sunshade that blocks 100% of light and allows no more heat transfer than a solid headliner. I have had the trucks with and without pano roof and with the roof and shade closed, the only difference is one you can open, and one you cant.
Haven't seen one on a new model Ram 1500 then.
I put 5% ceramic on mine. Been fine in the TX sun for 3 years. I have tinted every sunroof I have ever had. Never an issue. Manufacturing has come a long way. In the 80's and 90's it was true. Modern glass is nearly 100% flawless. The flaws in the glass from the manufacturing process CAN cause one to shatter, glass manufacturing has changed in the last 2 decades. Glass used to get brittle with age, but most sunroof/moonroof panels now are double pane, laminated glass, you could hit them with a hammer and most often (unless you hit it just right) it will just bounce off. My truck went through a hailstorm last spring, dents everywhere, Pano roof was just fine. Golfball to baseball-sized hail, $23,000 in damage, not one piece of glass was even nicked.
A feature we introduced at Ford as the Twin Panel Moonroof, in December 2014 in this segment on the P552 F-150 for MY 2015. A lot of pickup truck manufacturers had to play catchup with high tech stuff or luxuries, because of their 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton trucks having roots in the 2000s. The P552 was the first of thoroughly newer generation pickups, in terms of engineering approach and underlying basis.
Ram caught up for MY 2019 with the current DT, as the preceding DS (old Ram pickup, still being made) wasn't designed to accommodate such a feature in the first place. Toyota is behind schedule as usual and would've done it sooner if feasible, but it's expected with the lofty goals they had via TNGA-F and saved all of it for that. GM can never make up their minds on what they will offer at upper end and forget about Nissan.
Only Ford (since 2014) and Ram do. The only set so far, to offer features that truly rival high end luxury sedans.
Great info as always! Always good to see when model upgrades can potentially happen. Always kills me to see Toyota move so slow with upgrading literally everything. The timelines on some of these model lines is really insane and frustrating to me (2024+ for a new 4Runner?! They should just can it and work on an EV 4Runner at this point), especially in this day and age when some manufacturers are providing certain upgrades OTA. One of the largest most profitable companies in the world and if only they would invest a bit more in R&D to get updates out to the general public a lot faster. Oh well, such is life at Toyota.
Look forward to seeing what you can dig up for Lexus timeline.
Great info as always! Always good to see when model upgrades can potentially happen. Always kills me to see Toyota move so slow with upgrading literally everything. The timelines on some of these model lines is really insane and frustrating to me (2024+ for a new 4Runner?! They should just can it and work on an EV 4Runner at this point), especially in this day and age when some manufacturers are providing certain upgrades OTA. One of the largest most profitable companies in the world and if only they would invest a bit more in R&D to get updates out to the general public a lot faster. Oh well, such is life at Toyota.
Look forward to seeing what you can dig up for Lexus timeline.
Toyota keeps shooting itself in the foot. I understand that they don’t knee jerk react, but they often miss all market trends because they just haven’t bothered to update anything. In many ways, they are ripping off the consumer by charging more each model year & relying on the same old outdated tech. A prime example is the Lexus GX. It’s a tough-as-nails SUV, but they haven’t updated hardly anything in at least 4 years. Now, a vehicle that could be the segment sales leader or near the top, is just an old sloppy, janky gas hog with no tech & no power. It’s not even vanilla, it’s liver flavored. Toyota can & should do better. Their management sucks. How many Supras have you seen on the lots? Me? Zero! Now they claim it’s a slow seller - what a joke. Ship some to the dealers & I bet they will sell! I’m unloading on Toyota. I’m tired of their awful fish mouth front grills & now, with this Tundra, they took a shoebox & added a bed & put a shovel on the front & called it a grill. How did it take so long to design something so ugly? I like being fairly brand-loyal when I like something, but I just can’t be with Toyota’s newest models. SMH!
Great info as always! Always good to see when model upgrades can potentially happen. Always kills me to see Toyota move so slow with upgrading literally everything. The timelines on some of these model lines is really insane and frustrating to me (2024+ for a new 4Runner?! They should just can it and work on an EV 4Runner at this point), especially in this day and age when some manufacturers are providing certain upgrades OTA. One of the largest most profitable companies in the world and if only they would invest a bit more in R&D to get updates out to the general public a lot faster. Oh well, such is life at Toyota.
Look forward to seeing what you can dig up for Lexus timeline.
Certainly GFerg, I updated and corrected my post (thks). I wish this stuff got around more, but it's all over the place like a messy puzzle. Most people on YouTube are making up drivel or borrowing information from me and a few other individuals who chime in occasionally. They are not doing this subject justice and are just being careless, that so many Toyota owners are lost or confused at what to expect.
Yeah, TNGA everything has been rough on Toyota, since 2009-2010 when Akio Toyoda created that vision and expected it to take 15 years to implement this new modularity. He committed to heavy redesigns of pre-TNGA models through at least the mid-2010s and then after that, everything was required to be TNGA through 2025. Some second generation TNGA will begin production over the next 12-24 months. Such as the next Camry and Prius (due February 2023). The latter might be cancelled between now and next year, but we'll see.
The next 4Runner is behind due to the turbo 4 hybrid being made to accommodate EV mode, which it didn't before. They want all models at launch I imagine, in spring 2024. Land Cruiser Prado predates it by half a year, via Tahara. 4Runner will now be the added capacity at TMMGT in Mexico, next to the Tacoma.
For the record, I just got updated photos of the updated 2022 Chevrolet Silverado. The interior looks nice, with some nice tech, but the front…well, they used Toyota’s old ugly stick also. Yuck! Ever since I was a child, I got excited about new model releases & redesigns. The thrill is gone. They will have an extremely hard time convincing me to buy anything new for awhile from any manufacturer. If the Nissan Z could just tow…
Jimmy Soul said it best..."If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife."
ha. Problem for Toyota is that the majority of America truck buyers don’t care for Toyota full size trucks. The current tundra was truck of the year for MT, but reliability and long ownership just doesn’t factor in. The Toyota marketing in 2007 didn’t work either as “the truck that’s changing it all” and “holy smoke” just didn’t catch on. The domestics just have better appeal. more options. More discounts. More everything. More heritage. . Heck, RAM has two versions of the Ram. I do think the new Tundra will be successful for Toyota in that it will sell well to the Toyota crowd….but recently one of the execs said that the new tech or engine will “blow you away”…which is worrisome….as expectations become too high.
The next 4Runner is behind due to the turbo 4 hybrid being made to accommodate EV mode, which it didn't before.
The next 4Runner WILL NOT BE A 2023 MODEL ANYMORE! It has been delayed 16-18 months.
Forgive me if you have already mentioned it (I didn't see it)...but is the next 4Runner going to keep the body-on-frame platform? Or convert it to unibody like the Explorer did some 10 years ago?
I like the current Tundra. It looks weird in that picture.
It reminds me of the American trucks combined into one.
IMO, strongly Toyota in every sense, dating back generations. Totally 4Runner-Tacoma-Hilux-Land Cruiser with old Tundra mixed in. Even me as a Ford guy, admits it. Other than maybe a little Ford, I see nothing from GM or Ram.
Was a laugh when this debuted almost 9 years ago at Detroit and many called it a Tundra copy (pre-2014 truck). while Toyota simultaneously copied the Ford interior (2009-14 interior) for the 2014 mini-redesign. Both were mostly designed in 2011, so neither knew they were both "copying" each other. P415 2009 - 2012 F-150 Interior (2007 photo) Original 2nd Generation Tundra Interior (2006) 2007 Tundra (2006 photo)
The alleged "copycats" of each 2014 Tundra (2012 press photo) 2013 Ford Atlas Concept (2012 Press Photo) 2013 Ford Atlas Concept (2012 Studio Shot) 2013 Atlas Concept (2013 NAIAS)
The updated 2014 Tundra seemingly cribbed from the old F-150, while the new 2015 F-150 allegedly was inspired by Toyota's organic design for the 2007 Tundra and was more sculpted than the extra blocky 2009-14 F-150.
Originally Posted by Wilson2000
Ever used a new software package? Companies work out the bugs after release, as it benefits them to do so. Out of shear embarrassment, Toyota should have released a new Tundra long ago!
That is a good simplification of the development hell the Tundra has been in for years, as was the 2021 Sienna that saw its launch shifted back FIVE times in just 1 1/2 years, before being revealed last year in May 2020.
Toyota wants all their big redesigns to be hybrids at or near market launch. No more staggered releases, so they've thrown themselves into a pickle when ***** goes wrong. Not to mention TNGA-F, requiring that all the big utilities debut first, meaning anything midsized or compact below them, got affected in a domino fashion if something went wrong on the top. They took a top-down approach and it has teething pains.
The revolutionary hybrid system for the Tundra, caused a 14 month launch delay in 2019 pushing toward Dec 2021, which added a few weeks into early 2022 just recently. For some weird a$$ reason, the 2023 Sequoia is still on schedule anyway.
Originally Posted by Wilson2000
Interesting! However, they do refresh the front and rear aesthetics every two years, or so. The new Tundra needs a front refresh right out of the box. This should create a windfall opportunity for aftermarket manufacturers.
It's typically every 3 or 4 years, because Japanese OEMs used to do 2+2 year runs, until got so unbearable on staff and expensive as hell. They would start the next generation development, before "today's" redesigned models even finished testing and caused engineering overlap! For the Accord and Civic they used to do that back in the 70s/80s/90s, until Honda execs in the mid-90s put a stop to it and started running much longer lifecycles for stuff launched in the 2000s. It's why the RSX took a full 8 years to come to market in 2001, after Integra. Exhaustion.
At Toyota, they've gone through that too and I believe Nissan did prior to the alliance with Renault in 1999. Typically now, they wait and study the market, before initiating next gen work, which has been typical of European and American OEMs.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Forgive me if you have already mentioned it (I didn't see it)...but is the next 4Runner going to keep the body-on-frame platform? Or convert it to unibody like the Explorer did some 10 years ago?
No.
Same modular architecture as 2022 vehicles above, but I swear I heard something in regards "uniframe" for Prado in Japanese...
09-07-21, 04:08 PM
ha. Problem for Toyota is that the majority of America truck buyers don’t care for Toyota full size trucks. The current tundra was truck of the year for MT, but reliability and long ownership just doesn’t factor in. The Toyota marketing in 2007 didn’t work either as “the truck that’s changing it all” and “holy smoke” just didn’t catch on. The domestics just have better appeal. more options. More discounts. More everything. More heritage. . Heck, RAM has two versions of the Ram. I do think the new Tundra will be successful for Toyota in that it will sell well to the Toyota crowd….but recently one of the execs said that the new tech or engine will “blow you away”…which is worrisome….as expectations become too high.
