mmarshall

Even so, this is not the 1970s and 80s any more. Today's BlueTec, Common-Rail, and TDI diesels start and run almost exactly like gas engines....with the added benefit of generally more low-end torque (from lower red-lines) than equivalent non-turbo gas engines. While the smell may not be completely gone, very little if any of it is left, and most of the rest of the older-diesel ills (marble-can idling, black soot out the tailpipe, difficult starting in cold weather, two batteries needed, water and wax in the diesel fuel, long heat-up times for glow-plugs, etc...) have been greatly reduced or eliminated, thanks to modern technology, low-sulfur diesel-fuel, and urea-solution-injection.

gadgetman1

All true! It puzzles me as to why Toyota took the distant highway & refused to offer any of their fantastic Diesel engines in the USA. Even the ill-fated Oldsmobile diesels had most of their bugs worked out right before they were discontinued. You could drive a fully loaded Olds 98 that seated 6 people or numerous ultra luxurious Cadillac models that easily got 25-30 mpg! BMW had some awesome straight 6 diesels in the 5 series cars that would whoop most gasoline cars & get a solid 30 mpg while doing it. Everyone got scared because VW & Ram cheated the EPA. Toyota’s diesels overseas were rock solid workhorses. I could possibly forgive an ugly truck if it could work hard & deliver great mpg. Hybrids are interesting & certainly have their place in any lineup, but they are not nearly as consistent day after day for folks that tow trailers for a living or climb dirt trails. Turbos are great too, but they may not last as long & get really expensive when they break. I’m not sold on Tundra’s strategy. I live in Texas & the majority of vehicles are big pickups (mostly diesel) & SUVs. People use these vehicles on their ranches & worksites. Toyota has yet to crack into the fleet sales. Business owners want reliable work trucks & if they are economical, that’s a huge plus for the bean counter’s bottom line in the office. Perhaps Toyota hasn’t been able to get the reliability out of the emissions systems (mostly made by Bosch)…I sure wish they could do it.

Wilson2000

When I bought pickups for my fleet, I was forced by County policy to buy American. I imagine most government entities have similar policies. I can't speak for private fleets, but my guess is buying American is a fairly universal sentiment in the private sector as well (mainly for optics).

As I stated earlier, my County department wouldn't buy diesel pickups either, but that was an internal preference due to budget restraints as the increased cost of ownership was prohibitive.

gadgetman1

Yes, I looked into that a few years ago. Most American pickups were predominantly either assembled in another country (Mexico or Canada) or they were made from foreign components. I found the Tundra to be the most American made truck for both parts & assembly. I was very surprised at that finding. Most counties have such antiquated policies that they have absolutely no idea they are buying stuff mostly made in other countries. They just go by the name of the manufacturer. Ram is completely owned by several foreign countries & many (not all) are put together in Mexico. There’s nothing American about them.

ArmyofOne

One of my two businesses uses 10 Ram 3500 DRW HD trucks. Bought new in 2018, all but 3 had over 100,000 miles in the 1st year of service. I am using Rams exclusively because of their Cummins engine durability, primarily. The 3 that don't have over 100,000 miles are my backup rigs. These trucks live with 20-30,000lbs behind them, for days, even weeks at a time. We maintain them well, but breakdowns do happen. One truck has over 330,000 miles on it (highest in the fleet so far) and it's only breakdowns (besides tires-doesn't really count IMO), have been emissions related. But, because its a business-owned vehicle, I can't delete any of the emissions. If we got caught running without that emissions equipment in place, 5-6 figure fines would follow, as well as confiscation and destruction of my rigs. The EPA is garbage, the emissions controls are garbage and what's worse is that the systems are the same across all truck brands. The piping routes and filter/sensor locations might be different on different makes, but they're all made by Bosch. It doesn't matter if you buy a Ford, GM, Ram, or an International or a Peterbilt. They're all shat. They don't help mileage, their effect on emissions is marginal at best, a single Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) is ~$5,800 (last i had to replace one), and the trucks run better without them. And to top all this off, everyone who uses a diesel HD pickup commercially, has ZERO warranty coverage in the US. If it was purchased through Stellantis/FCA/WTF Fleet Sales, it comes without a warranty, which means entrepreneurs are on the hook for any and all maintenance and repairs from day 1.

All of ^that^, plus more, is why Toyota said "hell no" to diesels in the US for so long.

gadgetman1

My company have very similar issues. We had 3 Ram 3500 Cummins dually trucks used to pull backhoes & flatbeds full of steel. One older Ram had well over 400,000 miles & was pre-emissions. We also had a Ford F-350 that literally fell apart. That truck was junked at 200,000 miles. One of the new Rams had the entire emissions system catch fire just aft of the turbo. In order to get the truck back on the road, a shop stripped the damaged emissions equipment off & the truck was only used for local hauling & a new Chevy 3500 Duramax was purchased. So far, it’s doing Ok, but the problems are not with any of the diesel engines, it’s almost all emissions. I suppose Toyota just said screw it & didn’t bother to produce their own emissions equipment. I’m sure it would have been better than the Bosch crap. Many fire/rescue departments have abandoned diesel ambulances due to emissions issues & outrageous repair costs. If Toyota really wanted to shake up the truck world, they would offer a reliable diesel dually, but Toyota would rather milk old crap to death, than create new cutting edge, reliable vehicles.

ArmyofOne

If toyota made and sold a diesel HD truck, I'd order 10 tomorrow, even at $85k each. And I know I am not the only one. Can't take it witchya.

Toys4RJill

Toyota DOES have all the technology to pass emissions. The issue is that the cost is too high and consumers would reject a Toyota diesel in the United States. In other markets, Toyota diesels have all the emissions equipment to pass…diesels just inflate the price of building a vehicle and coupled with the additional maintenance costs…it thus becomes a sales killer.

Toyota even makes a Lexus LX diesel…but it would never fly in the United States
https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/202...lx450d-review/

A truck NOBODY would buy

ArmyofOne

oh really?

Just because you dont want it, doesn't mean nobody else does. Closed-minded much?

Toys4RJill

Doesn’t really matter to me if I want one …I just know Toyota will never do it. A Toyota diesel is a hard thing to sell in the United States. Pretty much impossible..and it goes against their hybrid philosophy . Happy you would buy one though.

gadgetman1

Ha! If I ever found a Toyota diesel Tundra or Land Cruiser or even a Tacoma, I would buy it!

Toys4RJill

have at it


Here are some conversions

https://dieseltoys.com/tundra-diesel

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

I would totally buy a Tundra HD Diesel version.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I'd advise anyone to stay away from diesels. There are very few independent repair shops who are able to work on them, and especially when it comes to all the emissions nonsense. A friend of mine started having trouble with his diesel Ford back in August, and the soonest appointment he was able to schedule is sometime in October. Local shops are not able or unwilling to help him.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

No problem down south finding diesel shops. Diesel is a necessity if you do any sort of serious towing over any distance.