If Gas Cars Are Banned, Can The Grid Handle Electric Cars?
02-13-21, 11:53 AM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
Why don’t we put a cap on ppl owning more than 1 house or limit new construction to 2k square feet. No more private jets, helicopters etc. What about those huge cargo ships and factories producing all types of crap.
New ICE cars contribute very little to overall pollution and will do nothing to help global warming imo.
New ICE cars contribute very little to overall pollution and will do nothing to help global warming imo.
02-13-21, 12:09 PM
#62
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by UDel
Are you serious? The enormous cost for one major thing is prohibiting the expansion of the grid to accommodate EV's. Do you plan on paying for it since you want it so bad. You seem to be full bore on the "man made climate change" religion and EV's/green energy will be the savoir so lets do it quickly no matter what without considering the consequences. I have talked to/listened to engineers and people in the power field, they say the grid just about everywhere is nowhere near enough for mass implementation for EV"s and it will be enormously expensive and difficult to get it there not to mention the cost of charging infrastructure, wind and solar won't come close to cutting it, its not going to be green like the fairy tales being fed to the public, it is actually going to be very destructive to the environment and costly for everyone. There should be no rush to do this, it is not dire, it is not a emergency despite what some wanting it so bad for their agenda are trying to say, more thought should be going into it and the market/buyer should be the ultimate decider, not what is forced on the people by clueless politicians and gov.
02-13-21, 06:56 PM
#63
I've never said anything of what you are implying. My only belief is that as EVs become more prevalent, the grid will adapt. Very simple. I also believe the regulations will force EVs into dominance in the next 20 years. The right or wrong of it is meaningless to me. I have many ICE cars still and don't plan to get rid of them anytime soon. I bought the Tesla for performance and cost of ownership reasons alone.
in fact plants are being forced to shut down.
it’s unfortunate and I wish you were correct that market forces would prevail. But in this case that’s just not so.
02-13-21, 07:06 PM
#64
cant make this stuff up.
02-13-21, 07:20 PM
#65
you are not having an intellectual dialogue like some on the boards are. No where did I say a generator is 100% efficient nor was it implied
what was said when you plug a Tesla into a gas burning generator you get 8-13mpg. No form of electrical generation is 100% efficient. The most that can be recovers from solar is 33% and we are close to reaching the max wind is less and agin we are close. And that’s at the source. You lose a lot on the transmission and distribution. Very little is lost when you generate electricity in the transmission when you plug a Tesla directly into a generator. It’s a glaring example of how little people actually understand where electricity comes from and what it takes to produce it. Can you believe folks actually believe Tesla’s get over 100mpg In fuel equivalent? They don’t
what was said when you plug a Tesla into a gas burning generator you get 8-13mpg. No form of electrical generation is 100% efficient. The most that can be recovers from solar is 33% and we are close to reaching the max wind is less and agin we are close. And that’s at the source. You lose a lot on the transmission and distribution. Very little is lost when you generate electricity in the transmission when you plug a Tesla directly into a generator. It’s a glaring example of how little people actually understand where electricity comes from and what it takes to produce it. Can you believe folks actually believe Tesla’s get over 100mpg In fuel equivalent? They don’t
02-13-21, 07:26 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by winterturb
you are not having an intellectual dialogue like some on the boards are. No where did I say a generator is 100% efficient nor was it implied
what was said when you plug a Tesla into a gas burning generator you get 8-13mpg. No form of electrical generation is 100% efficient. The most that can be recovers from solar is 33% and we are close to reaching the max wind is less and agin we are close. And that’s at the source. You lose a lot on the transmission and distribution. Very little is lost when you generate electricity in the transmission when you plug a Tesla directly into a generator. It’s a glaring example of how little people actually understand where electricity comes from and what it takes to produce it. Can you believe folks actually believe Tesla’s get over 100mpg In fuel equivalent? They don’t
what was said when you plug a Tesla into a gas burning generator you get 8-13mpg. No form of electrical generation is 100% efficient. The most that can be recovers from solar is 33% and we are close to reaching the max wind is less and agin we are close. And that’s at the source. You lose a lot on the transmission and distribution. Very little is lost when you generate electricity in the transmission when you plug a Tesla directly into a generator. It’s a glaring example of how little people actually understand where electricity comes from and what it takes to produce it. Can you believe folks actually believe Tesla’s get over 100mpg In fuel equivalent? They don’t
02-13-21, 07:35 PM
#67
The grid has been growing at an average clip of 4% per year. Did you watch the video? In less than 10 years naturally, the grid will have grown to accommodate 30% increase in usage. Yes, there is active initiatives to expand the California grid as we speak. They know that EVs are coming. They aren't dumb.
a friend of mine just built a grow up in a large industrial welding shop that had upgraded electrical to handle all the 220v welders etc i the shop. Any idea what his cost was to upgrade the system to handle the new demands? 3 million dollar shop 20,000 square feet? Any guesses? And this is just one example of what it takes to upgrade a location never mind the lines going into the shop. Over 7 figures on location.
the cost and work involved in replacing and upgrading poles transformers underground cables and on and on mind boggling ask a Tesla engineer what it takes to set up a charging station?? It’s one of the reasons Tesla is Not profitable and would not exist without subsidies.
the current grid cannot handle the coming EV revolution. Without Subsidies and government. Meddling there would likely be no EV revolution and EVs would remain toys for the wealthy as they were in The late 1800’s. Make no mistake Tesla has built an impressive Car and I have spent many miles enjoying them but they are not the answer to anything
02-13-21, 07:49 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
right here is the issue. What you believe is well and good bits it’s simply not true. The utilities companies CANNOT adapt. InChina they can as they are building 2400 new coal plants in America the restrictions are preventing the building of new plants.
in fact plants are being forced to shut down.
it’s unfortunate and I wish you were correct that market forces would prevail. But in this case that’s just not so.
in fact plants are being forced to shut down.
it’s unfortunate and I wish you were correct that market forces would prevail. But in this case that’s just not so.
Winterturb has some good points here. Without new plants (and with coal plants shutting down), it's going to be very difficult or impossible to keep with grid-demand. Water, wind, and solar will only be able to do a fraction of it.
02-13-21, 07:53 PM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by winterturb
EZZ you are correct. The grid is expanding and that dour to new construction to keep up with the demand for new homes new buildings etc. Growing the grid is a completely different animal than upgrading the grid. The existing grid was built years ago even before th internet age. Our homes are so electric now compare to ten years ago even that it’s straining the grid. EVs are not iPhones and put a huge current draw in the grid That is wherein the problem lies.
a friend of mine just built a grow up in a large industrial welding shop that had upgraded electrical to handle all the 220v welders etc i the shop. Any idea what his cost was to upgrade the system to handle the new demands? 3 million dollar shop 20,000 square feet? Any guesses? And this is just one example of what it takes to upgrade a location never mind the lines going into the shop. Over 7 figures on location.
the cost and work involved in replacing and upgrading poles transformers underground cables and on and on mind boggling ask a Tesla engineer what it takes to set up a charging station?? It’s one of the reasons Tesla is Not profitable and would not exist without subsidies.
the current grid cannot handle the coming EV revolution. Without Subsidies and government. Meddling there would likely be no EV revolution and EVs would remain toys for the wealthy as they were in The late 1800’s. Make no mistake Tesla has built an impressive Car and I have spent many miles enjoying them but they are not the answer to anything
a friend of mine just built a grow up in a large industrial welding shop that had upgraded electrical to handle all the 220v welders etc i the shop. Any idea what his cost was to upgrade the system to handle the new demands? 3 million dollar shop 20,000 square feet? Any guesses? And this is just one example of what it takes to upgrade a location never mind the lines going into the shop. Over 7 figures on location.
the cost and work involved in replacing and upgrading poles transformers underground cables and on and on mind boggling ask a Tesla engineer what it takes to set up a charging station?? It’s one of the reasons Tesla is Not profitable and would not exist without subsidies.
the current grid cannot handle the coming EV revolution. Without Subsidies and government. Meddling there would likely be no EV revolution and EVs would remain toys for the wealthy as they were in The late 1800’s. Make no mistake Tesla has built an impressive Car and I have spent many miles enjoying them but they are not the answer to anything
02-13-21, 08:15 PM
#70
There will definitely be growing pains but to say it's impossible is short sighted. There will be growing pains for sure and I don't believe there will be a drastic shift to EVs suddenly. This will be a long drawn out process and in 20 years, I expect more than 50% of new cars to be EVs but plenty of ICEs will still be sold. Upgrading the grid will come with this change. This will certainly be interesting times in the next couple decades.
time will tell. It’s been a good dialogue. Thank you!
02-13-21, 08:25 PM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by winterturb
nobody is saying it’s impossible. To the contrary I said in a previous post That Americans are great at resolving problems when working together, and quite frankly could upgrade the grid quickly. The issue is, and it’s not insignificant, is the religion of the environmentalists and government policy and lack of understanding or desire to solve the coming problems. These are completed different issues. Solving the problem is simply a matter of doing it. Build power plants and upgrade the lines. The problem is it CANT be done in today’s hostile climate. Boneheads won’t get out of way so industry can solve the problem. Boneheads are forcing industry into investing billions to comply with expensive green regulations. That’s the problem and for that there is no rational solution.
time will tell. It’s been a good dialogue. Thank you!
time will tell. It’s been a good dialogue. Thank you!
02-14-21, 07:24 AM
#72
Lead Lap
nobody is saying it’s impossible. To the contrary I said in a previous post That Americans are great at resolving problems when working together, and quite frankly could upgrade the grid quickly. The issue is, and it’s not insignificant, is the religion of the environmentalists and government policy and lack of understanding or desire to solve the coming problems. These are completed different issues. Solving the problem is simply a matter of doing it. Build power plants and upgrade the lines. The problem is it CANT be done in today’s hostile climate. Boneheads won’t get out of way so industry can solve the problem. Boneheads are forcing industry into investing billions to comply with expensive green regulations. That’s the problem and for that there is no rational solution.
time will tell. It’s been a good dialogue. Thank you!
time will tell. It’s been a good dialogue. Thank you!
02-14-21, 08:06 AM
#73
Lexus Test Driver
I think everyone agrees that EVs could definitely be the answer for the future and Tesla has shown ppl it can be a reality. The issue most ppl have is that the overall infrastructure is not ready to handle the switch and it will take a huge investment by the government and increased taxes on general public for everyone to switch from ICE to EV.
Is it possible to do this by 2035? Sure
Is it realistic especially if there is another economic downturn which typically happens every decade? I’m not so sure.
What i do know is gas prices will increase in short term and operating a car whether its ICE or EV will cost us significantly more in coming decade to help pay for all these anticipated changes.
Is it possible to do this by 2035? Sure
Is it realistic especially if there is another economic downturn which typically happens every decade? I’m not so sure.
What i do know is gas prices will increase in short term and operating a car whether its ICE or EV will cost us significantly more in coming decade to help pay for all these anticipated changes.
02-14-21, 10:12 AM
#74
The way I see it, investments into electric infrastructure are going to create a ton of jobs and drive up economy. That being said, the older I grow the less I care about global issues, saving the planet, and the rest of such nonsense. I'll gladly drive an EV if it makes sense for me financially and satisfies my needs in a car.
02-14-21, 08:05 PM
#75
Great video on the subject matter of the grid and EVs. His calculations basically forecast a 30% increase in total electricity needed to power a complete transformation to EVs. Hardly unachievable by 2035 Enjoy...
https://youtu.be/7dfyG6FXsUU
Enjoy...https://youtu.be/7dfyG6FXsUU
The true numbers are actually over 100%.
Sure utility companies give EV discount dropping the price but that has no bearing on the current topic, usage
in Norway drivers drive half as much as they do in America so they cut that to 50% plus 95% of their electricity is generated from hydro so they truly are clean cars. I’d drive one in Norway
the grid to homes if all cars convert to EV in the USA will see more than 100% increase and will need to be upgraded to handle that.
Last edited by winterturb; 02-14-21 at 09:30 PM.