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You're thinking from the perspective of an existing F car owner of which there are few and far between. Lexus, with the IS500 F-Sport, has just effectively lowered the price of entry for new and prospective Lexus buyers desiring the famed Lexus V8. To these people, the V8 is brand new and intoxicating with its engine note and 470hp. I actually suspect the IS500 will be a surprise sales hit.
The RC F is already cheaper than the original IS F when adjusted for inflation, so it's certainly not at all the reality that just because something is cheaper makes it sell better.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
really? why so negative. this announcement should be considered a good thing!
I'm negative because there is nothing to be positive about in terms of what this signals for Lexus and the F brand. I've stated my reasoning clearly in this thread, it's not just about being negative.
Thanks for the fact check. Not sure where I saw the 3.6tt at 470hp.
Anyways, that Cadillac V6 had more torque than that Lexus V8. And the Cadillac V black wing can hit 200mph....
You're thinking of the ATS-V that used the 3.6TT. 464hp and 445lb-ft.
That's pretty typical of a forced induction motor vs naturally aspirated though. Different sensations, different animals. As always, Lexus is just bucking the trend and marching to their own beat. Yes the 2UR-GSE is 15 years old, but it's proven to be venerable as some ToMoCo motors do. Take your NEW 4Runner for example. It's 4.0 1GR-FE goes back 11 years and that's just for Dual VVT-i. It really came out in 2002 with the debut of the 4th generation 4Runner.
Yes the 2UR-GSE is 15 years old, but it's proven to be venerable as some ToMoCo motors do.
It's also a much different engine now than what went into the original IS F. It's a bit lazy [for others] just to chant that it's 15 years old. And as I already said, it's not about the engine. The engine has never been the problem. People didn't dismiss the original IS F because it used an engine from the LS600h/L. Even in the RC F, the criticism (e.g., Clarkson, Harris, etc.) was that the car felt sluggish like (or perhaps even more so than) the German boats all while not having the AMG/M power to make up for it.
It's also a much different engine now than what went into the original IS-F. It's a bit lazy just to chant that it's 15 years old.
I'm not the one who's been bashing the 2UR-GSE. I'm merely hinting at the block. I know the IS F had a lower compression ratio than other models that followed. The 5.0 also served in the LS600hL and currently the Century. Like I said above, the 5.0 is venerable. We should rejoice that the IS has more to offer than just a 4 and 6 pot
I'm not the one who's been bashing the 2UR-GSE. I'm merely hinting at the block. I know the IS F had a lower compression ratio than other models that followed. The 5.0 also served in the LS600hL and currently the Century. Like I said above, the 5.0 is venerable. We should rejoice that the IS has more to offer than just a 4 and 6 pot
I was agreeing with your sentiment, sorry not to be more clear.
It's also a much different engine now than what went into the original IS F. It's a bit lazy just to chant that it's 15 years old. And as I already said, it's not about the engine. The engine has never been the problem. People didn't dismiss the original IS F because it used an engine from the LS600h/L. Even in the RC F, the criticism (e.g., Clarkson, Harris, etc.) was that the car felt sluggish like the German boats all while not having the AMG/M power to make up for it.
The fact that Yamaha had a hand in parts of its development (high-flow cylinder heads, titanium inlet valves among other things) I think makes it even more special. I don't care what Clarkson thinks, the things he says he does for ratings. From my own experience with Lexus 5.0's, they are gems and the always put a smile on my face.
really? why so negative. this announcement should be considered a good thing!
hope you're right but i do know you're right that many would like the is500 without add-ons for lower cost. i found in my LC search that there's few with the performance (now called dynamic handling) package, and they don't even offer it on the convertible.
no care about special body work, f interior. cf parts are nice but could easily be an option. the tvd is nice too but if it at least has limited slip that's great. it has the lighter enkei wheels which are great, and i'm glad they're 19s and not 20s. i'm sure the brakes on the is500 will be plenty good enough.
i don't know what other buyers are like, but the performance/handling of my lc FAR exceeds any driving i'm going to be doing in it. a car like a mclaren would be utterly wasted on me. for me, the lc represents a driving experience, between the beautiful interior and exterior, the sounds, the raw mechanical nature of it, the quality of everything, and the amazing all wheel steering and handling.
i know the is500 isn't an lc500, but it will still be a GREAT experience to drive. anyone who doesn't enjoy it just isn't into cars. it could always be 'more' but then there would be more $$ too.
Maybe I'm wrong but the "special body work" along with a lot of other things does matter to many enthusiasts..
If they are looking for new customers and win new business to pull them into Lexus its a far stretch..
2022 LEXUS IS 500 F SPORT PERFORMANCE: THE IS SPORTS SEDAN
This is is a V8 engine slap... In an IS350 F SPORT - lets call it what it is. "A Mouthful"
Maybe I'm wrong but the "special body work" along with a lot of other things does matter to many enthusiasts..
If they are looking for new customers and win new business to pull them into Lexus its a far stretch..
2022 LEXUS IS 500 F SPORT PERFORMANCE: THE IS SPORTS SEDAN
This is is a V8 engine slap... In an IS350 F SPORT - lets call it what it is. "A Mouthful"
MY 2021 IS 350 - F SPORT
MY 2022 IS 500 - F SPORT / "PERFORMANCE"
Joe Z
If it really mattered then the IS-F, GS-F, RC-F would have sold and not failed in the market place. They were all too expensive even with the body kits, huge brakes, carbon fiber/simulated carbon fiber bits, racy exhaust, etc.
I think buyers mainly want the engines, hp, acceleration, nicer wheesl, maybe a small spoiler and at not a huge premium over the regular model, at least I think that is what Lexus buyers mainly want. Pricing is what will determine if this is a success/big deal or another dud, if they price it at 55K-60K then I think it will be well received and get some decent sales, price it over 60 and it will have the same if not worse issues as the RC-F, too expensive for a entry level sedan with a nice V8 and you start getting into a lot nice options new or used at that price. They can always do a more expensive F that has all the track stuff, body kits, with a engine tuned for another 30 or 40hp or new turbo 8 but it is unlikely to sell either, if they get more people into this F Sport by pricing it attractively then maybe it will pave the way more to hard core F models that people will pay more for.
pretty happy to hear toyota decided to put a v8 in these cars. are they listening to us enthusiasts? could this be a last hurrah before they fully go electric? all my speculation of course.
If it really mattered then the IS-F, GS-F, RC-F would have sold and not failed in the market place. They were all too expensive even with the body kits, huge brakes, carbon fiber/simulated carbon fiber bits, racy exhaust, etc.
I think buyers mainly want the engines, hp, acceleration, nicer wheesl, maybe a small spoiler and at not a huge premium over the regular model, at least I think that is what Lexus buyers mainly want. Pricing is what will determine if this is a success/big deal or another dud, if they price it at 55K-60K then I think it will be well received and get some decent sales, price it over 60 and it will have the same if not worse issues as the RC-F, too expensive for a entry level sedan with a nice V8 and you start getting into a lot nice options new or used at that price. They can always do a more expensive F that has all the track stuff, body kits, with a engine tuned for another 30 or 40hp or new turbo 8 but it is unlikely to sell either, if they get more people into this F Sport by pricing it attractively then maybe it will pave the way more to hard core F models that people will pay more for.
I think you're right about the price point being attractive if its under $60k. But if the main differentiators are the engine, exhaust and some mild exterior badging, I find it hard to believe they can squeeze the price under $60k. If they do, folks may splurge on those leases for an IS500 over an IS350.
I just dont see how putting the same engine in the IS500 thats in the RCF and even the trademark F tailpipes, but its not an F makes any sense for Lexus' brand program...
1) Avoid competition with full fledged M and AMG cars. It will mean instant death for the model a la RCF
2) They can price it lower than the RCF since it is not a full fledged "F" car despite the same engine so it may not **** off too many of the 5 RCF owners
3) Leaves them room for an even higher performance version
4) Cheap to reuse an existing engine and transmission on an old but similar platform that housed this same engine a few yrs back
5) Good test to see how many Lexus V8 "fans" will put their money where their mouth is
6) Too lazy to think of any more reason
it’s a moot point, 0-150 is nearly identical in both cars in question, it’s from 150-155mph where the GSF beats the M340, the M340 looks to run out of steam past 150mph.
Arent most cars limited to 155mph anyways? And who drives at top speed or much past 80mph outside of the autobahn or someone sneezed while driving down hill?
If it really mattered then the IS-F, GS-F, RC-F would have sold and not failed in the market place. They were all too expensive even with the body kits, huge brakes, carbon fiber/simulated carbon fiber bits, racy exhaust, etc.
This is a total non sequitur. Aside from the IS F not being priced particularly high in the first place (esp. relative to the marketplace), the reason an F (or AMG or M or RS) costs so much more than a base model isn't the exterior trim.
02-23-21 | 08:00 AM
This is a total non sequitur. Aside from the IS F not being priced particularly high in the first place (esp. relative to the marketplace), the reason an F (or AMG or M or RS) costs so much more than a base model isn't the exterior trim.