Lexus IS500 F SPORT Performance
02-24-21, 05:46 PM
#376
Lexus Test Driver
Is the argument here really that if the RC F were instead a V8 swap in an RC350 and cost [$6k] less it would have been a sales success?
Last edited by gengar; 02-24-21 at 05:54 PM. Reason: 62,400 actually.
02-24-21, 05:51 PM
#377
people complain toyota doesnt care about enthusiasts if they totally stopped V8s, people complain toyota doesnt care about enthusiasts when they come out with a new V8 model
its just those two piece looking brakes like on the GS. They definately should make a big brake option package to make it F like
its just those two piece looking brakes like on the GS. They definately should make a big brake option package to make it F like
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 02-24-21 at 05:54 PM.
02-24-21, 06:11 PM
#378
Well, now they've brought the V8 to the 3IS, that's a good first step.
The other promising second step is Lexus refusing to call the V8 3IS, the IS500, a true F car.
It's been made pretty clear by even the official Lexus spokesperson (see lexusenthusiast's interview with Lexus): The IS500 is not an ISF replacement.
It's a leadup to the actual ISF that will hopefully be coming later. The fact that Lexus is effectively saying : " No, a 470hp V8 is not enough for our future F car" should be cause of celebration amongst Lexus petrol heads because the immediate implication is that the upcoming true ISF will have performance significantly far beyond what a 470hp V8 can muster.
In fact, if Lexus had labelled this IS500 as an ISF, that would have been incredibly disappointing to Lexus fans as it would mean that Lexus had given up rivalling the full fat M's, RS's and AMGs of this world blow for blow. The IS500 signifies the huge scope of Lexus' ambitions and is a warning shot across the bow of the Germans about Lexus' true intentions. It is Lexus drawing a line in the sand and saying :" Even our mid-range performance sedan, the IS500 is already encroaching on M3 territory in terms of horsepower; our true ISF will stomp your M3s/AMGs/RSs into the ground.
The other promising second step is Lexus refusing to call the V8 3IS, the IS500, a true F car.
It's been made pretty clear by even the official Lexus spokesperson (see lexusenthusiast's interview with Lexus): The IS500 is not an ISF replacement.
It's a leadup to the actual ISF that will hopefully be coming later. The fact that Lexus is effectively saying : " No, a 470hp V8 is not enough for our future F car" should be cause of celebration amongst Lexus petrol heads because the immediate implication is that the upcoming true ISF will have performance significantly far beyond what a 470hp V8 can muster.
In fact, if Lexus had labelled this IS500 as an ISF, that would have been incredibly disappointing to Lexus fans as it would mean that Lexus had given up rivalling the full fat M's, RS's and AMGs of this world blow for blow. The IS500 signifies the huge scope of Lexus' ambitions and is a warning shot across the bow of the Germans about Lexus' true intentions. It is Lexus drawing a line in the sand and saying :" Even our mid-range performance sedan, the IS500 is already encroaching on M3 territory in terms of horsepower; our true ISF will stomp your M3s/AMGs/RSs into the ground.
of course calling the is500 as isf will be a suicide, you don't have to state the obvious. i never said calling this car is500 is wrong, i am just surprised they are going this route (and i enjoy v8 over ttv6 any day so this is a positive). but very simply put, where the hell is the f? after how many years now?. so regarding whatever claims and "if" at the end of your post? just stop it, we already know what toyota is capable of. we are talking about what they have done and when.
and your focus on the first point of my post only demonstrate the extremely disappointing truth of my second point on GS
I agree with you that Lexus screwed up and turned their backs on its customers that were interested in performance cars. They should have made ISF for 3rd gen IS and sold it along with the RCF. They also have waited YEARS to bring GSF which was completely uncompetitive vs M5/E63. Nobody here is denying that Lexus didn’t make right decisions and as much have stated the management of Lexus brand is awful.
I just think this particular IS500 model is cool and will have a cult following for years to come like the original ISF had. They didn’t have to do this. Also I think an LC-F will be coming when LC gets refreshed.
As far as price - RCF base is $65k. There is NO way this IS500 will start at same price. It will base at $60 and up to high $60s fully loaded. IS350 is doing well and this IS500 will continue the excitement and momentum. Lexus needs to ramp out products and have consistency which they have failed at.
I just think this particular IS500 model is cool and will have a cult following for years to come like the original ISF had. They didn’t have to do this. Also I think an LC-F will be coming when LC gets refreshed.
As far as price - RCF base is $65k. There is NO way this IS500 will start at same price. It will base at $60 and up to high $60s fully loaded. IS350 is doing well and this IS500 will continue the excitement and momentum. Lexus needs to ramp out products and have consistency which they have failed at.
i don't agree about the part on "they didn't have to do this". whenever people do or not do something it is for a purpose, otherwise that's called stupidity. of course they didn't have to get into sports, they will be just fine selling NX, RX, and ES all day. it's about what they really want for the brand, a boring grandpa brand? or something more exciting that rivals the competitors? they do this for a reason, they want to salvage something. imho they better have a good follow up on the real isf, otherwise it's a huge problem.
i think overall that's my biggest problem with lexus, i can't seem to see their passion or planning. everything performance on this brand seems to be an afterthought that comes late. if you think M or AMG, you know when they design a new generation, the M and AMG development starts together. but if you look at lexus, ISF was an afterthought. 3is came out and no one seemed to remember there is a F. 4gs came out and again gsf seemed like an afterthought that came after refresh. lc came out and where is lcf outside of countless rumors? rcf was probably the best planned one. it seems to random i can't get a good grasp.
for the price, i wasn't talking about starting price. i always think starting price is stupid. you should know well when looking at "starting price" of european cars. i am talking about the majority of cars people see in the lot. with is350 running 50-55k, i expect 65k for is500. my impression from reading the posts is that people are expecting around 60k to get the is500 which i think is low (would love to see that though).
Last edited by rominl; 02-24-21 at 06:14 PM.
02-24-21, 06:43 PM
#379
Lexus Fanatic
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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The reality = MY2021 IS 350 F Sport RWD w/DHP package and a few options rings in at $55,400 including accessory option packages I left out below.
Go see online live inventory at Lexus Dealers.. With these cars in stock.
How much more does it cost to add in the V8 2UR-GSE + new skin on front clip ??
@4TehNguyen
Putting legit Brembo "Big Brakes" as an option on an IS 500 will already price it into F class.
The GS 350 brakes will do just fine
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 02-24-21 at 06:46 PM.
02-25-21, 03:18 AM
#380
Driver School Candidate
All the performances upgrades are good fodder for trade magazine sales and the enthusiasts but to the average Joe most go unnoticed. How about bringing back the ability to choose your options. Interior & exterior colors, cloth or leather, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder even a diesel. Coupe, 4 door, hardtop convertible. Posi rear, AWD, gear ratios, automatic, manual, Base car, F Sport, Luxury Edition..... That’s how American cars used to be purchased. Then the foreign cars made it simpler for themselves by selling options in packages. (A package, B package ...) If you wanted a specific option you had to buy the whole package. Maybe with the new automated systems and robotics they can start producing special orders again. Imagine having the ability to order any option offered or that you can afford and being able to build your 1 of 1 dream car.
02-25-21, 06:49 AM
#381
Lexus Fanatic
Still heading that way lol
02-25-21, 07:23 AM
#382
02-25-21, 08:09 AM
#383
Lexus Test Driver
I don't know why you are comparing it to a 2 door, mid-engine sports car. A lot of cars in the price range are much faster than the IS500. Its supposed to be a great daily with good power with super reliability, not a dedicated performance platform.
02-25-21, 08:23 AM
#384
Pit Crew
All the performances upgrades are good fodder for trade magazine sales and the enthusiasts but to the average Joe most go unnoticed. How about bringing back the ability to choose your options. Interior & exterior colors, cloth or leather, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder even a diesel. Coupe, 4 door, hardtop convertible. Posi rear, AWD, gear ratios, automatic, manual, Base car, F Sport, Luxury Edition..... That’s how American cars used to be purchased. Then the foreign cars made it simpler for themselves by selling options in packages. (A package, B package ...) If you wanted a specific option you had to buy the whole package. Maybe with the new automated systems and robotics they can start producing special orders again. Imagine having the ability to order any option offered or that you can afford and being able to build your 1 of 1 dream car.
for a daily use car like this is500, package pricing seems best.
02-25-21, 09:24 AM
#386
Driver School Candidate
You're exactly right about the higher price. That's why high option classic Vettes go for huge money at auctions BC Chevy offered many options a' la cart driving the price out of reach of the average working man's pay grade. Mopar on the other hand offered less options so most of their Hot Rods (GTX, Road Runner, Cuda...) came with the goodies. (disc brakes, posi rears, 4 barrel ...) What are options we're looking for? Bembro, Blistein, Borla .... And if they're reasonable priced more buyers will choose them and if these options really sweeten the car the leftover overs will go to the parts department and hopefully offset Lexus' bottom line and take a bite out of the after market money.
02-25-21, 10:58 AM
#387
All the performances upgrades are good fodder for trade magazine sales and the enthusiasts but to the average Joe most go unnoticed. How about bringing back the ability to choose your options. Interior & exterior colors, cloth or leather, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder even a diesel. Coupe, 4 door, hardtop convertible. Posi rear, AWD, gear ratios, automatic, manual, Base car, F Sport, Luxury Edition..... That’s how American cars used to be purchased. Then the foreign cars made it simpler for themselves by selling options in packages. (A package, B package ...) If you wanted a specific option you had to buy the whole package. Maybe with the new automated systems and robotics they can start producing special orders again. Imagine having the ability to order any option offered or that you can afford and being able to build your 1 of 1 dream car.
02-25-21, 12:06 PM
#389
Lexus Fanatic
You do know the MSRP of the RC F was $62.5k, yes? [EDIT: just looked up the 2021 and it's now 65,875, 62,400 was the original MSRP in 2015].
Is the argument here really that if the RC F were instead a V8 swap in an RC350 and cost [$6k] less it would have been a sales success?
Is the argument here really that if the RC F were instead a V8 swap in an RC350 and cost [$6k] less it would have been a sales success?
Do I think many more people would have bought a V8 RC F sport if they could get it at around 55K as opposed to in the 62-68K+ range for the F, yes I do, saving 7-10K is still huge for many buyers and once you get over 60K there are a lot more interesting options new and used.
02-25-21, 12:08 PM
#390
Lexus Fanatic
One is a two door full sports car, other is a 4 door with a decent sized trunk that can haul more people and be taken on long trips, very different cars, the New Corvette you want optionally is more around 80K.