Lexus IS500 F SPORT Performance
#451
Lexus Fanatic
I know right? Just drop it in there...it'll destroy everybody. Dont know where people will get the racing fuel or the ear protection, but they'll find it somewhere! Night vision...it wont even need real headlights. Just don't try and turn right.
#452
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
I wasn’t even a little close to insinuating that Lexus should produce a one off Solara Resto Mod that wouldn’t be street legal in every state. Simply stated again, Lexus IMO could compete with BMW & MB by offering their TRD NASCAR motor (or variant) as a STOCK OPTION (not an engine swap) in the IS, RC and GS PRODUCTION cars. So they install the NASCAR V8 into a IS, RC or GS AT THE FACTORY as a STOCK option instead of a less powerful V8 or V6. Which is Nothing close to the RK Motor’s door slammer Toyota Solara. Especially not the Camry shell you’re mentioning. IMO this High Output V8 would up Lexus’ game in the high end high performance sedan market. Also the RK Motors 2010 Camry sold or was selling for $156K. I think you’ll agree with me that the RK car would not help Lexus’ bottom line. Furthermore I think we beat this horse silly.
#453
Pole Position
The IS350 F-Sport seems dynamically very similar to the IS500 F-Sport Performance except for the larger brakes and Yamaha horizontal chassis dampers in the IS500 and the heavier V8 in the nose of the car. I wonder if the IS500 will handle similarly to the IS350 in the winding roads as shown in this review. The reviewer seems very impressed by the new Lexus Driving Signature and his main complaint was the IS350 engine was lacking in power in an otherwise sublime chassis. Perhaps the IS500 fixes that issue :
#454
Instructor
iTrader: (2)
If this is meant to be Lexus's answer to the S4 / M340 / C43 ranges, I really hope this does well, because if they're doing 472hp for this range then imagine the HP spec they'll need for a full-on new IS-F for the next generation!
THEN it might be enticing enough to finally pry my 08 IS-F for a trade-in!
THEN it might be enticing enough to finally pry my 08 IS-F for a trade-in!
#455
Lexus Fanatic
You've argued here that the IS500 is perfectly reasonable at $58,500 but also that it will definitely be a sales failure at $60k. If that's "the only argument that makes sense" there's nothing we can hope to productively discuss.
You do know Lexus sold more than double the IS F's in the USA the first MY (2008) than AMG sold C43s for the entire W202 generation? And that's just picking two cars I've personally had. Pretty unbelievable the absolute nonsense people spout on here. It's no wonder you have to strawman so hard (I've argued literally none of the things you accuse me of).
You do know Lexus sold more than double the IS F's in the USA the first MY (2008) than AMG sold C43s for the entire W202 generation? And that's just picking two cars I've personally had. Pretty unbelievable the absolute nonsense people spout on here. It's no wonder you have to strawman so hard (I've argued literally none of the things you accuse me of).
You are cherry picking one AMG model/gen out of so many over the years that wasn't very successful comparing it to the original IS-F to try to prove a point which doesn't mean anything when you consider how much success AMG and M have had over the years/gens/all the models, you also aren't taking in world wide sales where AMG/M cars sell very well, especially Europe(I believe they normally sell more in UK/Europe then US) where the F cars have very little sales outside of the US(they allocated about 150 IS-F's to the UK market, about 500 a year targeted sales in Japan). In regards to the 203 C class(not really a shining example of Mercedes cars) AMG's, didn't they originally super charge a 6 cylinder for the first few years and then after several years replaced it with the C55AMG which probably accounted for lower sales/interest for that gen AMG's?
Talking of expensive Japanese luxury sedans in general, what is going on with the GS, RLX, Infiniti M/Q70? They have all been unfortunately killed over the past few years due to poor sales. Why were sales poor, you can say each had its weaknesses which they did but also because they were pricey and hit too high of price points that many buyers don't want to pay for Japanese luxury cars. What is happening to the current LS500? It is failing too, due to many reasons other then price but also because the nicer equipped ones that you want are nudging at 100K. What happened when the GTR's price went up so much despite constant improvements, its sales plummeted, new NSX is a great car yet it can't manage any sales. I could go on and on but the fact is expensive Japanese cars generally don't fare well in the market unless they just nail it and even then the price has to really be right/seen as a bargain.
The F cars were not good sellers for Lexus, the last 2 have failed which is why they have to try something new like mainly just giving buyers the V8/power option they want in a IS without all the other stuff that drives the price up so high to hopefully generate some more sales/interest in higher performance Lexus cars so full on F's may get more sales/interest in the future. I don't see anything wrong with that, I just don't see why anyone would complain about that or be so disappointed, I don't see why shoe horning that V8 in a IS means there can't also be a full on IS-F or RC-F in the future. I wish they would have shoe horned that V8 in a GS and just offered it at a lower price then the GS-F or better yet offered a lesser tuned version of that V8 as a very affordable V8 option in the GS from the get go instead of the hybrid, maybe then the GS would have been more successful and not killed, who knows.
#456
Lexus Test Driver
^
They also waited way too long to bring GSF to market - after refresh and to me the car is very underwhelming. It was significantly underpowered compared to E63, M5, CTS-V. In that executive performance class - power #s are everything.
They are doing same thing now with LC - waiting forever to bring LCF model to market. Again consistency of new products and product investment is key and something that Lexus has never followed through on their various performance vehicles/parts - TRD, TTE, Ltuned, Fsport etc. I have seen it all.....
They also waited way too long to bring GSF to market - after refresh and to me the car is very underwhelming. It was significantly underpowered compared to E63, M5, CTS-V. In that executive performance class - power #s are everything.
They are doing same thing now with LC - waiting forever to bring LCF model to market. Again consistency of new products and product investment is key and something that Lexus has never followed through on their various performance vehicles/parts - TRD, TTE, Ltuned, Fsport etc. I have seen it all.....
#457
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Under an IS F since 2008
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If this is meant to be Lexus's answer to the S4 / M340 / C43 ranges, I really hope this does well, because if they're doing 472hp for this range then imagine the HP spec they'll need for a full-on new IS-F for the next generation!
THEN it might be enticing enough to finally pry my 08 IS-F for a trade-in!
THEN it might be enticing enough to finally pry my 08 IS-F for a trade-in!
IF there was an IS F in the planned pipeline, they would have needed to start it a few years back...
(see sample of the LC F prototype circling Nurburgring)
Currently I don't see a true IS "F" car coming anytime soon!! Insert the IS 500
Even the LC F has been halted or still questionable based on several reports few months back.
@RNM GS3 Sharing truth and honest opinions should be welcomed by Lexus Intl / USA / JP.. Otherwise we'll keep getting the same "no more boring cars"
We can't just keep hopping on the same "thank you Lexus" bandwagon...
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 03-01-21 at 09:42 AM.
#458
Lexus Test Driver
And to further debunk this "cherry-picking" nonsense, the C36 sold even fewer units in the USA than the C43. But IMO that wasn't a fair comparison since, again, this was before AMG production went in-house at MB.
#459
Lexus Fanatic
This car will be solidly in the $60k range. No way its optioned in the 50s.
#460
Lexus Test Driver
@IceIridium
IF there was an IS F in the planned pipeline, they would have needed to start it a few years back...
(see sample of the LC F prototype circling Nurburgring)
Currently I don't see a true IS "F" car coming anytime soon!! Insert the IS 500
Even the LC F has been halted or still questionable based on several reports few months back.
@RNM GS3 Sharing truth and honest opinions should be welcomed by Lexus Intl / USA / JP.. Otherwise we'll keep getting the same "no more boring cars"
We can't just keep hopping on the same "thank you Lexus" bandwagon...
Joe Z
IF there was an IS F in the planned pipeline, they would have needed to start it a few years back...
(see sample of the LC F prototype circling Nurburgring)
Currently I don't see a true IS "F" car coming anytime soon!! Insert the IS 500
Even the LC F has been halted or still questionable based on several reports few months back.
@RNM GS3 Sharing truth and honest opinions should be welcomed by Lexus Intl / USA / JP.. Otherwise we'll keep getting the same "no more boring cars"
We can't just keep hopping on the same "thank you Lexus" bandwagon...
Joe Z
Right now its too late to revamp ICE performance so let’s be greatful for the “old” V8 they still have. Any future ICE performance models Lexus can bring to market would be highly appreciated.
If you want pure performance brand with enthousiast focus - you need to go to Porsche in the current marketplace.
#461
Lexus Test Driver
#462
Lexus Test Driver
#463
美少女戦士セーラームーン
iTrader: (24)
^
They also waited way too long to bring GSF to market - after refresh and to me the car is very underwhelming. It was significantly underpowered compared to E63, M5, CTS-V. In that executive performance class - power #s are everything.
They are doing same thing now with LC - waiting forever to bring LCF model to market. Again consistency of new products and product investment is key and something that Lexus has never followed through on their various performance vehicles/parts - TRD, TTE, Ltuned, Fsport etc. I have seen it all.....
They also waited way too long to bring GSF to market - after refresh and to me the car is very underwhelming. It was significantly underpowered compared to E63, M5, CTS-V. In that executive performance class - power #s are everything.
They are doing same thing now with LC - waiting forever to bring LCF model to market. Again consistency of new products and product investment is key and something that Lexus has never followed through on their various performance vehicles/parts - TRD, TTE, Ltuned, Fsport etc. I have seen it all.....
It’s interesting that you pointed out all of the Lexus performance part names. They didn’t seem consistent with anything for a while. I remember seeing L-Tuned, TTE, and TRD parts on the first generation IS and second generation GS.
#464
#465
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
I have been sharing my opinion for years when i left the brand years ago. 😀
Right now its too late to revamp ICE performance so let’s be greatful for the “old” V8 they still have. Any future ICE performance models Lexus can bring to market would be highly appreciated.
If you want pure performance brand with enthousiast focus - you need to go to Porsche in the current marketplace.
Right now its too late to revamp ICE performance so let’s be greatful for the “old” V8 they still have. Any future ICE performance models Lexus can bring to market would be highly appreciated.
If you want pure performance brand with enthousiast focus - you need to go to Porsche in the current marketplace.
you are also right about AMG and M slapping their badge on everything. very sad move. it started out with the fsport, and then later on audi bmw and mb jumped on it, sigh...