Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Yes the usage is expanding...!!!

However, These dampers have been around for a while..

Insert parts from TRD / Lexus Japan for the IS F & RC F CCSP



Circuit Club Sport Parts



IS F - CCSP



RC F - CCSP

Joe Z

Vladi

Brother I hear you, since I've driven the very first Lexus in my life twenty years ago and got deeper interest in the brand I could tell bean counters are running the show with occasional victories from rebels within the company that got us original IS-F and LFA. Someone wants to run Lexus like Toyota and that's not how luxury brand of the richest car maker should be run at all. Lexus should be emotional product and committee product.

natnut

F car purists bemoan that IS500 share parts with other cars and not F car exclusive parts. But they are not the target audience of Lexus this time round. Like I said, all these cost cutting measures are designed to lower the price of entry of obtaining a high performance Lexus V8 sports sedan that will be bulletproof and easy to maintain.

The IS500 is for the middle-class car enthusiast who doesn't track the car. As far as I know, the GS350 F-Sport 2 piece lightweight larger rotors and upgraded calipers, the Torsen LSD, lightweight Enkei wheels, Yamaha dampers, the 3IS Shimoyama tuned chassis and adaptive variable suspension are already overkill for spirited driving on winding roads and canyon carving.

As an aside, if I remember correctly, when the 3IS came out in 2014, a 3rd gen IS350 F-Sport was tested on the C and D lightning lap and made better lap times then the previous generation 2008 ISF showing how Lexus had made a superior chassis in the 3IS. Currently the 3IS has been further improved on Shimoyama and now Lexus has put the upgraded UR V8 in the chassis that was begging for more power. I won't be surprised if the IS500 FSP completes 1 lap faster than the previous gen ISF ( of course on repeated laps, the 6 pot Brembos of the ISF will make their fade resistance felt and the ISF may take over.)

Regarding success of the F cars : ISF, RCF, GSF and LFA. They failed in the sense that they did not impact or capture the imagination of the middle class car enthusiasts nor did they change the public perception of Lexus. The main problem is that they sold so few that the man in the street doesn't see them often enough to associate sporty cars with Lexus. The IS500 and the F-Sport Performance line is designed to change that. Lexus' intention for the FSP (F-Sport Performance) is ATTAINABLE high performance for the majority of middle class car enthusiasts such that IS500 sells in high enough numbers that everyone may encounter a IS500 in the wild every few days. Once people start associating Lexus with sporty V8 compact sedans, Lexus can then move on to the next stage : Full on F cars.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

^^ There is a small flaw in that thought...

The IS 500 is only targeted for the USA and limited production size.

The IS F launched Globally back in 2008 in one of the worst economic times..

It had a good selling push at the launch, but then lost steam as a low volume seller.

In 2008 Lexus manufactured approx 4,800+ IS F to sell Globally.. Many in the USA stayed on the lots well past summer of 2009.. with deep discounts for left over 08's

Here are some stats of IS F sales numbers in the USA and the Global figures produced..
It had a good selling run early on. Total manufactured from 2008 to 2014 = 11,572 units.
Less than half were sold in the USA.

It has been confirmed that RC F & GS F figures are even well below these.



Joe Z

natnut

The limited launch of the IS500 is Lexus testing the waters. Lexus learnt from the relative failure of the ISF and F cars. They tried for a global launch and fell flat on their face. If the IS500 sells out every unit in the first wave of production run within a few weeks, I bet a wider launch of IS500 and other FSP products are coming fast down the pipeline.

gengar

Yeah, it's why I quit the advisory board a few years ago. TMC has always been a very conservative company so that part should not surprise any of us, but it became abundantly clear in their surveys / focus groups - especially when they were pushing to eliminate the V8 in the LS - that TMC was no longer interested in what their customers wanted, in favor of simply hearing what they wanted to hear. That's the ultimate megacorp BS, and as you said, not how a luxury, premium, high-margin brand should be run. And well, we saw how that worked out with the LS.


No surprise this is the same guy that argued 4 F products in 14 years was why F failed because it was too many products too quickly. No point to respond when statements like that make it clear others will attempt to rationalize absolutely anything at this point.

RNM GS3

I never realized the ISF is so rare in US - the support and Marketing really hurt it.

Same thing with LC500 - its a great car which you can’t understand by looking at the spec sheet. Lexus marketing is non-existent for it.

They also need to expand CUSTOM orders - clients in this class are used to building their spec down to the smallest detail for colors and trim. Paint to sample /Individual from Porsche/BMW are huge revenue streams that really help increase profits on low volume models. Also where are the Fsport goodies - Aero, Suspension, CF etc. All these are HUGE opportunities.

If they just read the forums - F brand could turn the ship around!

spwolf

wait, what? haha.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Performance is objective, so that is correct.

The LFA had several innovations, many that uphold the solidity and reliability expected with Lexus, as they trickled down to other models in the Lexus stable
1. While Lexus was not the first to use Carbon Fiber, they were the first with The Carbon Loom which knit together strands of carbon fiber without seams for maximum strength, rigidity and lightness
2. Spot welding is commandingly used in manufacturing automobiles, but Lexus went a step further and used Advanced body adhesives that helped with structural rigidity, stability, and noise reduction. This eventually was applied to road going cars like the IS
3. Laser screw welding employed incredibly accurate laser beams to great perfect spot welds and panel joints. The low heat of the lasers ensures there is no distortion to the body panels, which makes it more effective than traditional screws. In all this allows for more accurate construction. This was eventually applied to road going cars like the LS
4. Vacuum-cast aluminum was developed by Lexus engineers who noticed that the traditional method of pouring liquid aluminum into a cast could create bubbling, splashing, and uneven surfaces. Lexus subverted the force of gravity by developing a construction method that sucks the aluminum into the cast vertically for a perfectly even, resilient finish

As for design, that's completely subjective

But nice to see others appreciating this unique gem in automotive history

gengar

Yep. Again, statements that don't even merit a response.

Toys4RJill

I like Lexus and I love Toyota. I do question the significance of the LFA. Not sure I agree it was worth it or if it was as influential as some tend to say. (Just my thoughts)

gengar

Well it certainly wasn't worth it to Toyota, but that's TMC's fault and TMC's fault alone. To be fair, we thought they were heading in the right direction with the introduction of the FT86, but as far as the F brand, when the first thing they did after introducing the pinnacle in the LFA was to cancel the only other F...

natnut

You misunderstand. It's not that Lexus pushed out F cars too quickly. It's that there was no progression in between vanilla Lexus cars and full on F cars. You either had to be a typical Lexus buyer prizing sensible well made cars or you were a person tracking your car. Eg : Where was the middle ground between an IS250/IS350 and an ISF in 2008 for a Lexus compact sedan? Or even more starkly for Lexus 2 doors, an SC430 or an LFA? The extremes were too great to capture the middle, the majority of car enthusiasts who neither wanted slow cars nor full blown track cars. Audi has A4, S4, RS4 progression. BMW has 320i, 330i, M340i, M3 progression. MB has C300,C43AMG, C63AMG progression.

Lexus learnt their lesson. They thought that building an LFA, ISF would trickle down reflected cachet and glory down to the Lexus line but it didn't. People need to actually own a car, be impressed by it and then talk about it to their neighbors and friends thus spreading Lexus cachet by word of mouth. For that to happen, the car needs to be a daily driver that happens to be affordable and still fast--so that it has a compelling selling argument to middle-class car enthusiasts. The FSport Performance car specifically the IS500 is designed around those 3 conditions : daily driver, affordable and fast.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

flawed. you are trying to compare how lexus started vs how bmw/mb do it NOW, that's not apple to apple.

even if you look back to 2008 when isf started, you claim there is no middle ground between is250/is350 and isf? bmw had 325/335 and then m3. mb had c300/c350 and then c63. you either get a "regular" 3 series or c class or you pay a lot more money for the extreme sports. and that's how bmw and amg started as well. please keep in mind that it was lexus who started the whole "middle ground" thing with fsport. bmw and mb were followers.

703

Yes, and that assembly line is idling and wasting space and resource, because the LC and Century is very low volume, so in between coffee breaks, why not churn out a few more engines and slap it in the IS.