Lexus IS500 F SPORT Performance
#76
Lexus Test Driver
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Originally Posted by UDel
There was a huge price difference between the F Sport and F cars, that is why there is such a huge difference in sales, F Sport was around 6K or less over the base IS, GS, RC. F's were what 30-40K more over base or F sport models in some cases. Once you get into that kind of premium and class buyers expect much more and the F's did not deliver. I think the failure of the F cars boils more down to Lexus does not have the same image as BMW or Mercedes when it comes to high performance and they priced them too high for what you got. I was okay with not offering as much power/performance as most competitors especially if you get a nice NA V8 but it was the too high pricing/premium that was the issue with me and likely most buyers. Since the 4th gen GS did not have a regular V8 option they should have priced the GS-F lower, closer to where someone who really wanted a V8 could get one for not too big of a premium over a 6 cylinder or maybe make a less radical less expensive F model version later without the huge brakes, carbon fiber bits, etc more for buyers who mainly want a V8 in their GS.
#77
Pole Position
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There was a huge price difference between the F Sport and F cars, that is why there is such a huge difference in sales, F Sport was around 6K or less over the base IS, GS, RC. F's were what 30-40K more over base or F sport models in some cases. Once you get into that kind of premium and class buyers expect much more and the F's did not deliver. I think the failure of the F cars boils more down to Lexus does not have the same image as BMW or Mercedes when it comes to high performance and they priced them too high for what you got. I was okay with not offering as much power/performance as most competitors especially if you get a nice NA V8 but it was the too high pricing/premium that was the issue with me and likely most buyers. Since the 4th gen GS did not have a regular V8 option they should have priced the GS-F lower, closer to where someone who really wanted a V8 could get one for not too big of a premium over a 6 cylinder or maybe make a less radical less expensive F model version later without the huge brakes, carbon fiber bits, etc more for buyers who mainly want a V8 in their GS.
#78
Intermediate
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Regardless, good problem to have reputation wise for Lexus.
#79
Advanced
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A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.
#80
Pole Position
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So they removed hte badging from slower models. Makes sense.
#81
Pole Position
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I beg to differ. We are just too distracted by shiny plastic and a wannabee luxury presentation, that we can't appreciate quality anymore.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.
#82
Lexus Test Driver
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I beg to differ. We are just too distracted by shiny plastic and a wannabee luxury presentation, that we can't appreciate quality anymore.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.
#83
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I just want to remind everyone that Lexus still makes an ES 250 F-Sport with a non-turbo 4-pot shared in a Camry. That's why many of us are very skeptical about the value of the F-Sport badge.
#84
Pole Position
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Does what you say matter to the core buyer? The sales figures say its not what customers care about. If you kept the interior the same as regular GS with slight improvements and added a higher performance turbo V8, would that have done better? Can the Lexus F name even sell a $90k performance car or will buyers just want to go with the M5 or AMG. Maybe they should have a sold a mid $70k GSF with slight improvements and the NA V8. All i know is, I see an M5 a couple times a week while I've seen a GSF twice in the last year.
#85
Lexus Test Driver
#86
Pit Crew
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Also no one really paid $90k for a GSF (sorry to those few that did); the car was purchased for 15-20% off MSRP depending on year.
I’d rather this F sport model be in the vein of the GSF or RCF and not just a half assed effort or a quasi performance car.
I don’t care if it’s underpowered, just make it a proper sports sedan/coupe. Lexus can make great sports cars when they try. They really should make a ISF and sell it for $69k fully optioned. That’s the starting price for the new M3 before options.
ideally they should put a manual in the RCF and the “ISF”. Enthusiasts will buy it. I know it won’t happen, just wishful thinking.
#87
Lexus Test Driver
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The whole confusing part is the “Fsport” badge on the teaser photo. Why not make full F model for the new IS if they actually plan to use the V8.
Fsport = appearance package which every Lexus model offers
F = Performance and V8
I hope this is not RX plug-in Hybrid edition 🤷♂️
Fsport = appearance package which every Lexus model offers
F = Performance and V8
I hope this is not RX plug-in Hybrid edition 🤷♂️
#88
Lead Lap
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Does what you say matter to the core buyer? The sales figures say its not what customers care about. If you kept the interior the same as regular GS with slight improvements and added a higher performance turbo V8, would that have done better? Can the Lexus F name even sell a $90k performance car or will buyers just want to go with the M5 or AMG. Maybe they should have a sold a mid $70k GSF with slight improvements and the NA V8. All i know is, I see an M5 a couple times a week while I've seen a GSF twice in the last year.
#89
Lexus Champion
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My GS350 had an MSRP of $61k. Had I been able to get a GS F at about $75k, I would have stepped up. But the only ones locally were $90k and I wasn't willing to go there. I probably could have/should have been willing to travel and find the right deal, but I wasn't willing at the time.
#90
Pit Crew
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My GS350 had an MSRP of $61k. Had I been able to get a GS F at about $75k, I would have stepped up. But the only ones locally were $90k and I wasn't willing to go there. I probably could have/should have been willing to travel and find the right deal, but I wasn't willing at the time.
I’ve had two GSFs first one was a 2016 purchased in March of 2017, brand new, for $67k, second one was also a 2016 w/ 8k miles on odo never titled (new car warranty from day I purchased it) bought last year for $52,000.
First one was local, second one I had to travel for. You can get a new one in the Low $70k range and a gently used one for mid $60k with minimal legwork.
Not to stray from the topic of this thread, but Lexus can make great performance cars when they commit. If they make another random F sport model that’s not a dedicated sports variant like a GSF or RCF for $55k then what’s the point of buying it?
If I want a daily driver, that looks good, without a manual, to putz around town in, I’d just buy a Mazda 3 hatch and save $30k.
this is all my opinion btw. Different strokes for different folks.
Last edited by Tom44; 02-18-21 at 03:40 PM.