EV battery sizes, ranges, and Tesla exaggerations
02-21-21, 06:13 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
FatherTo1 great info, thanks!
02-22-21, 09:36 AM
#32
EV ftw!!!
I haven’t driven other EVs but I don’t find Tesla’s range estimates exaggerated at all. Even MotorTrend confirmed the 370-mile Model S completed the 359-mile distance from Fremont to LA, with 11% (41 miles) range remaining. They exceeded range estimates during the trip with two people in the car, AC on, and 65-70 MPH.
I also routinely exceed the EPA ratings on our Model S. With my 72.5 kWh usable capacity, I need to average 254 Wh/m to get rated range but I actually use 230 Wh/m at freeway speed and beat EPA range. Below is a snapshot just over a week ago where I travelled almost 90 miles and averaged better than EPA ratings, even at 65 MPH.
All that said, I don’t intend to drive down to zero but I have gone down as far as 4% and traveled 245 miles. This equates to 90% efficiency for my 285-mile rated range. That is plenty reasonable in the real world for me, driving like I normally would the LS 460, and with climate control on — only difference, like another poster above, is I’m saving $3K a year in gas compared to the LS (well, in a non-pandemic year)...still 90% fuel cost savings regardless.
In cold weather, all EVs will experience significant range loss. @bitkahuna , if you’re seeing or reading a disproportionate amount of Teslas missing range targets, I suspect the majority of them are also riding on larger wheels, which do incur a 10-12% hit to range. Our Model S came with 21s and my range immediately improved by 12.5% when I downsized to 19” wheels. The Mach-e seems to use smaller wheel and tire combos and I’m sure that’s helping it hit range estimates, along with the larger reserve capacity.
Admittedly, I haven’t kept up with the Mach-e and other EV entries as I still don’t see a truly compelling competitor to Tesla yet, in terms of style, performance, battery tech, and charging infrastructure. A lot of automakers are still playing catch up but competition is fierce and everyone is learning fast. It is great that other EV models are designed to consistently achieve their rated range, that only bodes well to lure in new buyers and increase adoption. From my experience, Tesla’s range estimates have been pretty accurate (except in really cold temps).
I also routinely exceed the EPA ratings on our Model S. With my 72.5 kWh usable capacity, I need to average 254 Wh/m to get rated range but I actually use 230 Wh/m at freeway speed and beat EPA range. Below is a snapshot just over a week ago where I travelled almost 90 miles and averaged better than EPA ratings, even at 65 MPH.
All that said, I don’t intend to drive down to zero but I have gone down as far as 4% and traveled 245 miles. This equates to 90% efficiency for my 285-mile rated range. That is plenty reasonable in the real world for me, driving like I normally would the LS 460, and with climate control on — only difference, like another poster above, is I’m saving $3K a year in gas compared to the LS (well, in a non-pandemic year)...still 90% fuel cost savings regardless.
In cold weather, all EVs will experience significant range loss. @bitkahuna , if you’re seeing or reading a disproportionate amount of Teslas missing range targets, I suspect the majority of them are also riding on larger wheels, which do incur a 10-12% hit to range. Our Model S came with 21s and my range immediately improved by 12.5% when I downsized to 19” wheels. The Mach-e seems to use smaller wheel and tire combos and I’m sure that’s helping it hit range estimates, along with the larger reserve capacity.
Admittedly, I haven’t kept up with the Mach-e and other EV entries as I still don’t see a truly compelling competitor to Tesla yet, in terms of style, performance, battery tech, and charging infrastructure. A lot of automakers are still playing catch up but competition is fierce and everyone is learning fast. It is great that other EV models are designed to consistently achieve their rated range, that only bodes well to lure in new buyers and increase adoption. From my experience, Tesla’s range estimates have been pretty accurate (except in really cold temps).
02-22-21, 09:50 AM
#33
EV ftw!!!
That's one stop of 30-45 mins that you would have had to stop anyway. How are you "wasting hours and hours"?
I've be the first to agree that spending 5 mins filling up your gas tank is much more convenient, however I personally feel you're blowing this way out of proportion. This type of reaction is very common with anyone who does not own an EV and totally understandable.
02-22-21, 12:46 PM
#34
Racer
Let's use an example - say you have to travel 500 miles (800 km). How far can you go without stopping for a food/bio break? Can you push 250 miles without stopping? Unless you're deliberately trying to dehydrate yourself prior to your trip, I don't see how you can go for 4 hours without stopping for at least 10 mins (bio/coffee break). Now because you have an EV, you need to charge more and decide to take the opportunity to grab a bite. Charge for 30 mins and move on.
That's one stop of 30-45 mins that you would have had to stop anyway. How are you "wasting hours and hours"?
I've be the first to agree that spending 5 mins filling up your gas tank is much more convenient, however I personally feel you're blowing this way out of proportion. This type of reaction is very common with anyone who does not own an EV and totally understandable.
That's one stop of 30-45 mins that you would have had to stop anyway. How are you "wasting hours and hours"?
I've be the first to agree that spending 5 mins filling up your gas tank is much more convenient, however I personally feel you're blowing this way out of proportion. This type of reaction is very common with anyone who does not own an EV and totally understandable.
As much as I love our Tesla, and can't imagine going back to an ICE vehicle, we borrowed my Mom's RX 350 on a trip to Yellowstone -- mainly because the RX was able to hold a little more than the Model S and still retain a spare tire. I sooo wanted to take the Model S instead but we've had bad luck with flat tires on trips before and didn't want to take the risk. I plan to get some run-flats for the S next time I need new tires. Anyways, with the RX, bathroom breaks at rest areas surprisingly took 20-25 minutes each time, and a particular gas stop took 17 minutes due to a variety of issues with the pump and payment kiosk. In the past, some Costco gas stops took 25 minutes because of lines. Of course, there are quicker options if I went to a different gas station. Although gas fuel-ups are much quicker, the overall time penalty to Supercharge hasn't been that bad because the rest of the family is slow and that extends any "quick" gas stops. So it's my family that is the limiting factor on trip time and not so much EV charging.
Definitely, driving by myself in an ICE vehicle is more efficient. In the past I always focused on making "good time" when driving an ICE car, but my perspective has simply changed when driving an EV and I honestly don't mind the Supercharger stops. I don't know why that is. If I had to stop for gas and it took longer than 10 minutes then I would get irritated, but it doesn't phase me to stop and charge for 45 minutes. I don't know why I'm less in a rush after going EV. Gas stops feel like a chore whereas Supercharging stops are a different experience. I use the charging stops to catch up on messages, email, and browse on my phone. I am just more relaxed on trips driving our Tesla. The charging stops really only come into play on longer trips anyways. On a daily basis, my battery is always "full" (80-90% in the morning).
03-09-21, 08:55 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
how much range did you add to your model s in 30 mins charging?
obviously i don't have an EV, but obviously you only drive yours locally or occasional planed trips. imagine living in colorado up and down mountains in freezing weather with few superchargers anywhere? that would have to make it more challenging.
and FatherTo1, no wonder you don't mind waiting at superchargers, you're in northern california.
again, it all depends on use cases and environment.
but happy it's working out great for both of you!
and you know it hameed, i WILL have an EV
I've be the first to agree that spending 5 mins filling up your gas tank is much more convenient, however I personally feel you're blowing this way out of proportion. This type of reaction is very common with anyone who does not own an EV and totally understandable.
and FatherTo1, no wonder you don't mind waiting at superchargers, you're in northern california.
again, it all depends on use cases and environment.
but happy it's working out great for both of you!
and you know it hameed, i WILL have an EV
03-09-21, 09:08 AM
#36
EV ftw!!!
My SoC when I start charging on a trip is usually around 20% and I charge to 90%. So I charge 70%, which usually takes about 30 to 40 mins at 120 Kw rate. In my specific case 70% is 170 miles. Sometimes I will charge less than 90% - as the charging rate tapers off as the SoC of the battery is high. So I will only charge for as much as I need to get to the next Supercharger (with a buffer of 15-20%).
Yes of course that will be more challenging and you learn to adapt to the use case, or don't buy an EV. 
I honestly can't wait to read your posts in 3 years about how you love the EV and also about how you regret not buying an EV ages ago lol That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
obviously i don't have an EV, but obviously you only drive yours locally or occasional planed trips. imagine living in colorado up and down mountains in freezing weather with few superchargers anywhere? that would have to make it more challenging.
and you know it hameed, i WILL have an EV
That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
03-09-21, 09:13 AM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
My SoC when I start charging on a trip is usually around 20% and I charge to 90%. So I charge 70%, which usually takes about 30 to 40 mins at 120 Kw rate. In my specific case 70% is 170 miles. Sometimes I will charge less than 90% - as the charging rate tapers off as the SoC of the battery is high. So I will only charge for as much as I need to get to the next Supercharger (with a buffer of 15-20%).
Yes of course that will be more challenging and you learn to adapt to the use case, or don't buy an EV.
I honestly can't wait to read your posts in 3 years about how you love the EV and also about how you regret not buying an EV ages ago lol That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
Yes of course that will be more challenging and you learn to adapt to the use case, or don't buy an EV.
I honestly can't wait to read your posts in 3 years about how you love the EV and also about how you regret not buying an EV ages ago lol
That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
03-09-21, 10:00 AM
#38
Racer
how much range did you add to your model s in 30 mins charging?
obviously i don't have an EV, but obviously you only drive yours locally or occasional planed trips. imagine living in colorado up and down mountains in freezing weather with few superchargers anywhere? that would have to make it more challenging.
and FatherTo1, no wonder you don't mind waiting at superchargers, you're in northern california.
again, it all depends on use cases and environment.
but happy it's working out great for both of you!
and you know it hameed, i WILL have an EV
obviously i don't have an EV, but obviously you only drive yours locally or occasional planed trips. imagine living in colorado up and down mountains in freezing weather with few superchargers anywhere? that would have to make it more challenging.
and FatherTo1, no wonder you don't mind waiting at superchargers, you're in northern california.
again, it all depends on use cases and environment.
but happy it's working out great for both of you!
and you know it hameed, i WILL have an EV
I haven't Supercharged in a long while but decided to test it the past weekend. I got about 61% (~175 miles) in 30 minutes. Admittedly, I'm on a 75 kWh battery (350V) and it charges slower than the 100 kWh batteries (400V). However, the Model 3/Y charge much faster, as evidenced by MotorTrend's own testing with newer V3 Superchargers (gaining 233 miles in 28 minutes):
03-09-21, 01:02 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
My SoC when I start charging on a trip is usually around 20% and I charge to 90%. So I charge 70%, which usually takes about 30 to 40 mins at 120 Kw rate. In my specific case 70% is 170 miles. Sometimes I will charge less than 90% - as the charging rate tapers off as the SoC of the battery is high. So I will only charge for as much as I need to get to the next Supercharger (with a buffer of 15-20%).
all these 'fast' rates mentioned here i presume are about superchargers, not home charging.
I honestly can't wait to read your posts in 3 years about how you love the EV and also about how you regret not buying an EV ages ago lol That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
That has been my only regret incidentally. I wish I got one sooner than I did.
i don't regret that i didn't get that sooner either.
03-09-21, 01:10 PM
#40
Racer
i confess to not really understanding all that on a quick read. my question was when you took the bio break, how much charge did you get in the 30 minutes there?
all these 'fast' rates mentioned here i presume are about superchargers, not home charging.
nice, well i don't regret much in life, i will take it as it comes. and i'm greatly enjoying my planet destroying, fuel slurping, noisy LC500. i don't regret that i didn't get that sooner either.
all these 'fast' rates mentioned here i presume are about superchargers, not home charging.
nice, well i don't regret much in life, i will take it as it comes. and i'm greatly enjoying my planet destroying, fuel slurping, noisy LC500.
i don't regret that i didn't get that sooner either.So 30 minutes charging at home, on 240V, will only give me 5% or 13-14 miles. But no one charges for 30 minutes at home and unplugs, whether you drive a Tesla, Leaf, or Chevy Bolt. Home charging overnight is more typical, when electricity rates are cheapest, and will ensure you always wake up with a “full tank” or close to it. This is more than sufficient for daily, non-road trip use. The most I’ve driven in a day for errands and local travel was about 180 miles. Typically it is more like 25-30 miles a day and requires an hour of recharge while I sleep.
I don’t really see how folks do road trips using 240V 7kW J1772 public chargers. That would be insanely slow for a daytime road trip. That is where Tesla’s Supercharger network really shines on road trips as it charges at least 15x faster than other public chargers.
Last edited by FatherTo1; 03-09-21 at 01:34 PM.
03-09-21, 01:27 PM
#41
EV ftw!!!
Newer Tesla's charge faster than the above.
03-09-21, 01:36 PM
#42
When Porsche released the Taycan, they said something along the lines that because their batteries are punished by their drivers, they quoted very conservative EV range to help enhance battery longevity.
03-09-21, 02:22 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
... So 30 minutes charging at home, on 240V, will only give me 5% or 13-14 miles. But no one charges for 30 minutes at home and unplugs, whether you drive a Tesla, Leaf, or Chevy Bolt. Home charging overnight is more typical, when electricity rates are cheapest, and will ensure you always wake up with a “full tank” or close to it. This is more than sufficient for daily, non-road trip use. The most I’ve driven in a day for errands and local travel was about 180 miles. Typically it is more like 25-30 miles a day and requires an hour of recharge while I sleep.
I don’t really see how folks do road trips using 240V 7kW J1772 public chargers. That would be insanely slow for a daytime road trip. That is where Tesla’s Supercharger network really shines on road trips as it charges at least 15x faster than other public chargers.
I don’t really see how folks do road trips using 240V 7kW J1772 public chargers. That would be insanely slow for a daytime road trip. That is where Tesla’s Supercharger network really shines on road trips as it charges at least 15x faster than other public chargers.
and yes, my question to hameed was about the 30 minute charge on a trip, not at home. that's some serious power delivery by a supercharger. i'm impressed tesla could get access to that much power. that's somewhat like a mini industrial plant at each supercharger location.
03-09-21, 03:03 PM
#44
Racer
and yes, my question to hameed was about the 30 minute charge on a trip, not at home. that's some serious power delivery by a supercharger. i'm impressed tesla could get access to that much power. that's somewhat like a mini industrial plant at each supercharger location.