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I saw my first Mustang Mach E today.
Looked good from far as the rear lights and shape are easily recognizable but as i got closer and from the side - looked like a CRV / RAV4 competitor - nobody would mistake it for $50k SUV.
I may stop by to test drive one. Trying to see if Ford stock is worth a bet 🤔
There are soooo many chargers in so-cal and i've yet to see 1 single charging cable lying on the floor. It is always plugged in after use because people don't want high voltage cables just lying around where people can trip over them. Also, most of the Teslas in my neighborhood are parked outside of their garage with a charging cable coming out from inside the garage. These are completely non-issues for EVs.
Non issue for your particular situation, but a huge issue for millions. Look at the photo in the link below, a loose cable like this one pavement can become a huge liability - it can become an ADA obstruction and a tripping hazard. Whether you like to admit it or not, there are tens of millions of people in the US that don't have an option of charging an EV at home.
Non issue for your particular situation, but a huge issue for millions. Look at the photo in the link below, a loose cable like this one pavement can become a huge liability - it can become an ADA obstruction and a tripping hazard. Whether you like to admit it or not, there are tens of millions of people in the US that don't have an option of charging an EV at home.
I was talking about cars parked outside their garage being plugged in. A complete non-issue for EV owners as they just extend their cable from inside the garage to their cars. All of the charger i've seen have dedicated stalls where tripping isn't an issue. In fact, all of them have raised bases so that the cable comes out from the top of the charger vs. touching the floors. You showed me the least elegant solution from Europe but take a look at the chargers in the US...none of them touch the floor. Cable obstruction isn't a barrier to EV adoption. You can argue range, inaccessible charging infrastructure, cost, etc... but no one cares about the cables.
I was talking about cars parked outside their garage being plugged in. A complete non-issue for EV owners as they just extend their cable from inside the garage to their cars. All of the charger i've seen have dedicated stalls where tripping isn't an issue. In fact, all of them have raised bases so that the cable comes out from the top of the charger vs. touching the floors. You showed me the least elegant solution from Europe but take a look at the chargers in the US...none of them touch the floor. Cable obstruction isn't a barrier to EV adoption. You can argue range, inaccessible charging infrastructure, cost, etc... but no one cares about the cables.
Apples to oranges. These elegant chargers are only available at certain locations, for people on the go. There is no viable solution for tens of millions who park on the street, short of the crude implementation that I posted.
There is a good reason why most cordless tools come with a separate charging station and you can have two or more batteries, available to be quickly swapped out so the tool can be used continuously with minimal interruption. I don't see why EV manufacturers don't want to adopt this simple concept.
Apples to oranges. These elegant chargers are only available at certain locations, for people on the go. There is no viable solution for tens of millions who park on the street, short of the crude implementation that I posted.
There is a good reason why most cordless tools come with a separate charging station and you can have two or more batteries, available to be quickly swapped out so the tool can be used continuously with minimal interruption. I don't see why EV manufacturers don't want to adopt this simple concept.
These types of chargers are the majority in the US. Every Tesla charger looks like that. I've never seen any fast charging solution that looks like the one you showed me. A private L2 charger may look like that on hotel premises but most long-distance chargers are very safe and industrial. For those with no viable charging solution on the street, you either have to fast charge after 250 miles (just like any other car) or just get an ICE for the time being. Who knows what solutions they'll have 15 years from now.
Apples to oranges. These elegant chargers are only available at certain locations, for people on the go. There is no viable solution for tens of millions who park on the street, short of the crude implementation that I posted.
So the folks that drive around the block for half an hour while looking for a parking space don’t have fifteen minutes to charge their batteries up to 80 percent and must be able to do it in five minutes or less?
These types of chargers are the majority in the US. Every Tesla charger looks like that. I've never seen any fast charging solution that looks like the one you showed me. A private L2 charger may look like that on hotel premises but most long-distance chargers are very safe and industrial. For those with no viable charging solution on the street, you either have to fast charge after 250 miles (just like any other car) or just get an ICE for the time being. Who knows what solutions they'll have 15 years from now.
Except the fast charge is anything but, lol. It turns into a round trip to a charge station, provided there are empty chargers, then the charge time, and 250 miles is way too optimistic. It just doesn't work in the real world.
Except the fast charge is anything but, lol. It turns into a round trip to a charge station, provided there are empty chargers, then the charge time, and 250 miles is way too optimistic. It just doesn't work in the real world.
If range is that important, just get a Model S with the 4680 pack next year. 520Epa miles is probably 350 miles real world and you can charge to 80% in 15 min with the new pack. Not everyone can afford it but those who can, it's a great choice. Another year or two will see that tech trickle down. The EVs are definitely coming.
Friend's model x gets about 250 miles per charge. Had an awful experience on a road trip where the car was slowing down to 55mph on the highway just to reach a supercharger. Definitely have a long way to go in terms of infrastructure especially when real world experiences are vastly different from advertisements.
I think some of you are selling Och short. While I am not quite as pessimistic on BEV futures as he is, he is bringing up some good points, and, like it or not, they are indeed going to impact the future of BEVs. This idea that the future is coming regardless, and will drag him along with it, is not a done deal by any means....there are a LOT of potential hang-ups. Look what happened recently in Texas and Oklahoma when the power-grid got over-strained in the Arctic cold......and once you get millions more people all trying to charge up their BEVs at once, you've set the stage for even more problems.
Wow there are some ridiculous arguments against EVs but as many pointed out, they aren’t for everyone just yet, it will take some time for sure, especially in big cities but it will come. As for tripping over cables, that’s grasping at straws.
I love the idea of an EV and will consider one when my current lease is up on my BMW in a year. What make/model I get really depends on what I am looking for with a mix of what is important to me. Range is a big deal for me but so is performance and interior quality. I love what Tesla is doing (except I still keep getting rejected at work when I try to buy the stock) but their interiors are tough for me to get over for the price. Performance is great but there has to be more for me. I think I’m in the Porsche/Audi camp at this point because it has more of a balance in what I want in a car. If performance was the only thing a Plaid model would be all I need.
If range is that important, just get a Model S with the 4680 pack next year. 520Epa miles is probably 350 miles real world and you can charge to 80% in 15 min with the new pack.
You've mentioned the unreleased 'savior' 4680 battery so often one might actually believe it's close to being available. There's zero guarantee it will be out this year, next year, or the year after.
Anyway, i think this thread has demonstrated that here or not, a lot of people aren't ready or aren't convinced they're mature enough and easy enough to live with that they're going to buy one. A century of ice vehicles isn't easy to change.
It might be worth looking at hybrids and seeing how long they took to become 'mainstream'. Even today i'd guess only 5-10% if vehicle sales are hybrids.
You've mentioned the unreleased 'savior' 4680 battery so often one might actually believe it's close to being available. There's zero guarantee it will be out this year, next year, or the year after.
Anyway, i think this thread has demonstrated that here or not, a lot of people aren't ready or aren't convinced they're mature enough and easy enough to live with that they're going to buy one. A century of ice vehicles isn't easy to change.
It might be worth looking at hybrids and seeing how long they took to become 'mainstream'. Even today i'd guess only 5-10% if vehicle sales are hybrids.
anyway, glad to see the lively discussion.
The 4680 is the next evolution of the lithium ion battery. Solid state will be a revolution but much further out. The 4680 prototype version has already been seen on the Plaid introduction video at battery day so at least they built the thing. But you are right in that wide availability isn't guaranteed this year or next. They did allow you to at least order the Plaid+ model with 520 mile range so seems they are confident.
Hybrids aren't a good comp as they didn't have the regulatory push EVs are getting. A lot of people are going to resist EVs for sure though and I do agree that this transition will be painful if not super painful.
In further comparison with hybrids, it's interesting how Toyota launched them primarily in VERY quirky vehicles (Prius line) and later 'mainstreamed it' into Camry, Corolla, RAV4, etc. In the EV world of course Tesla has 'unique' designs with mainstream features missing but breathtaking advances in other areas (software updates, the drivetrain and its performance). i think most people could live without the juvenile fart cushions feature though
i think tesla will become more mainstream in time. i think the cybertruck will end up being nothing like the prototypes shown as well.
03-08-21, 06:17 PM
