bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

so we talk a lot on here about Teslas... members like EZZ have pretty much the ideal setup... great solar to recharge the car, probably doesn't do a lot of long trips in it, and loves the peel your eyelids back acceleration but then there's the rest of the world...

A popular youtube reviewer TheTopher reviewed his new standard range model Y and he's in a cold region (Michigan I think). The vehicle's claimed range is 250mi. Sounds good right? Well in cold weather he's getting 150. That's nearly half gone because of the cold. Charging at home takes several hours (240v charging) for 60 miles i think he said. Not a huge deal overnight, but what if you come home with 5% left and decide you need to go back out for 50 mi.? Forget it. Have to wait until tomorrow.

So you either wait or have a 'backup' ICE car.

but i got to thinking, how often do i actually drive more than 150mi. in a day? Answer for me, 2-3 times a year. Not much! So i guess i could rent a car for those trips (pain), or do charging during the trip (pain) AND make sure i can charge at the other end if it's an overnight trip.

But TheTopher and all those smitten with tesla's overlook all that, and the quality issues on this one too... i guess i'm just not ready yet.

Toys4RJill

The vast majority of people are not gonna want to plug in their car every day, every other day etc etc. Range plummets as cold weather hits. And most piece do not want the expense of adding a car charger to their garage.

Batteries electrics are good for some...but not everyone

SW17LS

Im the same way. In all reality I could easily drive an EV every day. I extremely rarely drive more than 150 miles in a day, and I would buy a much more expensive EV than that which would have better range. I have a garage that I park in and I would have no issue plugging it in at night, and at my office when I'm there there are free EV chargers on the first floor. My issue would be when I do take trips in my personal car which is a few times per year, I dont want to have to plan out charging stops or worry about charging where I'm staying, etc. Are those few times a year worth ignoring all the other times it would be fine or even better? I mean, we have a minivan for basically road trips when that vehicle could easily be a car 9 times out of 10. I had SUVs for years for the same reason. So, people do buy cars for those few times a year and live with cars designed for those few times a year for the majority of their time with a car. Therein is the issue with EVs for people. For most people an EV would be in actuality fine or better but they focus on those rare times where it wouldn't.

In reality, you could rent an ICE car for a trip, or rent a minivan or SUV for a trip and drive something day to day that makes a lot more sense for your needs. But, people don't want to do that. They think they need a car that can fill ALL their needs at the same time.

If they made the car I liked in an EV version, I would seriously consider it at this point. They just haven't made any EV cars that appeal to me. For me its more about the car itself than it is EV vs gas.

EZZ

The solution to cold weather will be to include a bigger pack and better BMS to mitigate the loss of range so getting a 400 mile EV will get you 250 miles of range (which will probably be standard in the future). Charging times are also going down at a pretty good clip. We will probably be able to get to 80% in about 15 min soon.

Also, when I didn't have solar, my fuel costs were 25% of my gas costs. Much cheaper and takes about 10 seconds to plug in when I need it. I get about 40 miles per hour. If I didn't have a garage, I'd rather have an ICE for sure unless I had a 400+ mile range EV.

Also, many many other EVs coming your way. We should separate Tesla and it's specific issues and EV and it's general issues.

Och

iTrader: (3)

All the EVs got off to a wrong start, they will remain niche until they all have standard batteries that can be quickly swapped out by an attendant at a charge station.

SW17LS

Totally disagree with that lol

Bob04

Yeah, I don't think people are going to swap in and out batteries, considering how expensive they are.

EZZ

We may get there someday if we get to scale but my bet is charging times get to less than 10 minutes making battery swaps obsolete. Also, many never see a fast charging station as they charge at home.

swajames

I think the problem is that’s a very difficult model to scale. What’s needed IMO is wider access to faster charging, i.e. the ability to reliably add a couple hundred miles or more range with a five minute or so self-service charge.

sdls

Right now EVs are moving along the consumer acceptance curve on the way to widespread adoption. They are still in the early adopter phase and with it, a stream of rapid technological advancements and infrastructure buildout. As battery production and charging station construction increase, more economies of scale will be discovered to narrow the gaps between EVs and gasoline vehicles. It is a monumental undertaking as it is a paradigm shift, but it is happening with certainty.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Five minute charge just isn't happening unless there is some break through in battery tech. I don't care for planning my trips around charge stations, managing my speed and throttle to extend range, and having to sit and wait for the car to charge. Millions of people don't even have their own garage or driveway to put in a charging station.

It is very easy to implement a standard battery for all EVs, even if it means shorter range, that can be quickly swapped at a charge station.

Och

iTrader: (3)

A crazy car reviewer in Russia just did a video testing Taycan Turbo S. With 100% charge in a warm garage, he drove 108km (67 miles) in a very aggressive mode in -3C weather, and his charge was down to 11%. And Porsche claims 200 mile range. From what I understand, in a hot climate it can be even worse, since batteries quickly overheat under hard throttle.

EZZ

It's better in hot climates for EVs with active cooling. The Taycan can finish the Ring going full tilt due to its 800V architecture so the battery doesn't ever get that hot. The newer EVs are all much better at heat dissipation. The cold is currently an issue until they they can get the much larger 4680 packs into production.

tex2670

What do you mean "are not gonna want to plug in their car every day"? For those having a garage, or even just a private driveway, it takes 2 seconds. I don’t “want to” plug in my phone every day (or multiple times a day). But it’s no big deal. What’s the cheapest EV? $40K? $35k? If you can spend that on a car, you can spend a few hundred $$ to add a 240v outlet.

It’s the road trip issue that gets me. Spend $80k - $100k or more on a Model X as a family vehicle, and then *rent* a car for a family trip? Nah.

Och

iTrader: (3)

How many people actually have garages or even driveways? Sure, in the suburbs many people do, but EVs don't work out well for them because their commutes are generally longer and limited range is a huge turn off. For city folk, most park on the streets or underground garages that are not equipped with chargers. Those who have driveways, they are usually narrow and inconvenient to use, especially if you have multiple vehicles. For instance if I park my car in my driveway, it means I can barely squeeze through to walk to my backyard, so I just park on the street in front of my house. Having to deal with an EV would be an inconvenience, a multiple EVs would be impossible.