LeX2K

lol. Wasn't it predicted at the time moving to cars would make cities cleaner?

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Clearly that was a bunch of Horse s***...!!

But planes, trains, ships & automobiles did help expand economies accross the Globe.

Joe Z

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yes, but it not without nuances. The cost of private car ownership, whether EV or ICE is going to skyrocket, so most people are going to be forced to mass transportation and other more "sustainable" modes of transportation. With the shift toward working from home, many people won't even need a car. A lot of people will have to change their lifestyles completely, for better or worse.

AJT123

Yeah we sold our IS, completely unneeded third car. We still need 2 cars though because we have both been gone from the house on occasion.

And don’t worry too much, the government can KMA. I don’t think the government is going to full-on change my life or yours. This is still America, even though ...... things today.

mmarshall

What some automotive historians omit, though (or forget) is that BEV cars were produced over 100 years ago, early in the 20th century, but the industry moved away from them because ICEs were more suitable for everyday driving and did not have the range problems, particularly after the automatic-self-starter was invented by Cadillac in 1912, doing away with hand-cranks.

Granted, today's BEV technology cannot be compared to that of a century ago, but, ironically, some of the same underlying problems remain.

EZZ

There are very different problems for BEV these days. Its not about the lack of range in the car as some EVs can go 500 miles with a full charge. Its more of an infrastructure development issue which can be resolved. 100 years ago, technology couldn't solve the issue. These days, its just a buildout issue which is much easier to solve.

mmarshall

Far easier-said than done. We are finding that out more and more each day. Look what happened in Texas and Oklahoma a few weeks ago, for instance, when the entire electric grid-system failed from overuse/demand in the Arctic weather,, even in states where many people do not yet even drive BEVs. Just imagine what would have happened if, in addition to trying to heat homes and businesses, millions of people would have also been trying to recharge their BEVs. The power would probably still be out.

EZZ

That's why i said it's an infrastructure issue. It's obvious Texas needs to update its grid. This issue will probably spur them to upgrade and they will probably have future BEV use in mind during the upgrade.

We have ads in so-cal from the power company saying they are rapidly upgrading their infrastructure to drive BEV into the future. They are actively promoting BEV use and saying the grid is getting stronger. You don't think power companies love the wealth shift from oil to power utility? They are loving this future revenue opportunity.

mmarshall

I've not sure it's going to be that big of a revenue-boon. First, it costs money to generate electricity.....especially for the power companies themselves, although it is usually somewhat cheaper in nuclear-powered or hydro-electric plants. Second, although it varies somewhat according to state laws, power companies aren't free to simply set electric-rates *****-Nilly, wherever they want. Rates (and rate-increases) are usually set and/or approved by the State Corporation Commission....the company has to present credible evidence that their costs have gone up (or are going to go up) enough for a rate-increase to be approved.

EZZ

Who said anything about a rate increase? They just get to deliver more power at the same margins so revenue goes up due to volume. Bunch of my colleagues work or have worked for the utilities and they acknowledge that the utilities are very happy about the future. We are at the beginning of a massive shift in wealth from one segment to the other.

mmarshall

Perhaps I misunderstood your point. But my point was also valid.....we don't know what those margins will be. It will also cost money for power-companies to add equipment to produce more power to meet whatever BEVs are going to demand in the future.

LeX2K

Unless consumers are going to get completely ripped off via taxes, electricity will get cheaper and cheaper. The cost of solar in 10 years will be at the point where power will be almost free, this is based on cost of the hardware not including any shenanigans done by various governments.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Again, if we are going to use the same fossil/nuclear sources to generate electricity, then EVs are pretty much vegans that secretly eat meat. However, if we start to seriously shift to "renewable" sources, the price of electricity is going to skyrocket, as renewable sources are by far the most expensive way to generate electricity. Effectively, a lot of poorer people that are now able to afford to own a car will no longer be able to do that, no matter ICE or EV. It is probably a good thing, as it will reduce a lot of unnecessary traffic.

LeX2K

Nope. Do some basic research
What is holding back solar is storage not cost.
more reading
https://www.lazard.com/media/451086/...ion-130-vf.pdf

Och

iTrader: (3)

Plenty of research shows exactly the opposite, I'm sure you can do some honest research yourself, not just pick selective research that aligns with what you want. And then there are plenty of other nuances, such as reliability of renewable sources. Fact is, consumers pay the most for electricity in places where more electricity is coming from renewable sources.