RNM GS3

Sales #s are relative but not success.
You can be low sales and high margin = success
High sales, low margin = success

What VW has is LOW sales and Negative margins = NO Success 😀

Difference is Palisades are selling for sticker while Atlas has huge incentives, cheap leases and 0% financing.

You still can’t admit that that VW America is dumpster fire even when facts are presented in Bold.
Again This is a company fined $25 BILLION and still losing money to lawsuits. Their reputation is damaged and is opposite of EV.

https://www.vw.com/en/special-offers...&zip-app=11235

$0 Down / $0 Security Deposit / $0 1st Month's Lease Payment / $0 Due at Signing* OR 0% APR* for 72 months.

Toys4RJill

Yeah no kidding. People have to look at VW as the entire group and not just one brand. The VW brand and line up is not as strong as it was previously as there has always been price premium to a VW compared to a Hyundai, Chevy and even a Toyota. VW also has too many regional models such as the NA Jetta and the NA Passat, these sedans are weighing them down..... I could see VW turn into a GM or Ford where they kill off their sedans for NA

RNM GS3

I specifically stated VW brand in US not VW Group which consists of money makers like Lambo, Porsche, Audi that all do extremely well in the US. Most ppl have no idea those brands are under VW group as they are managed independently for the most part unlike relationship between Lexus and Toyota.

VW brand in US is a failure now and has been for decades. This is a fact supported by financial figures.

SW17LS

We get it, you hate VW lol

arentz07

I am not a fan of VW's direction lately. The reason I like my GLI so much is that it's a Mk7.5 GTI in sedan clothes, even down to the infotainment.

This seems like a serious marketing mistake by VW's leadership. "Hey you know what would get some attention? An early April Fools' joke!" Uh, no...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

That's not true, the suv's were specifically targeted at the u.s.

They may sell 1/3m cars a year, but they lose money, year after year. And as rnm points out, that 'period of time' is like 30 years.

Besides the recent 2 utes, the reason they lose money is their cost structure is too high and their other products aren't liked/appreciated by u.s. consumers. The jetta is lame compared with a camry/accord/sonata/etc. americans don't want small hatchbacks in any significant numbers so the gti isn't appreciated.

even the utes have very plain interiors to reach a price point and not to infringe on the profitable audi products.

No he's saying they're not successful, and in that sense (they lose money, their sales, for a mainstream product line, are unimpressive), he's right.

but i agree with you they're likely not going away because the u.s. market is too important.

heck if mitsubishi is still trying, vw ain't going away.

SW17LS

That’s what I said, NA means North American market.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you wrote: "In any event they haven’t developed the models specifically for the NA market they have to pull out. It’s not going to happen." which i admit i can't follow exactly. Do you mean if they HAD NOT developed the models for NA they would have had to pull out?

Motorola

Mazda is more likely to die in North America than Volkswagen, after all VW is part of massive conglomerate that can afford to eat their costs. Mazda can't, which is why most of their marketing hype leads to decade-delayed products or outright vaporware.

SW17LS

What I meant to say was “they haven’t developed these models specifically for the North American market just to pull out”

Meaning if they had any plans to pull out they wouldn’t have developed these models.

RNM GS3

How do I hate VW? I’m just giving you facts and enjoy discussing automotive brands through a financial side. When you lost an argument, now you make personal assumptions? We are not in kindergarten, are we? Lol
The mis-management of some of these companies is just amazing to see and are case studies for B-school.

I have never owned or will ever own a VW - although I do have a 911 and hopefully will be adding more P cars in the future so I guess technically I’m a customer of VW group. 👍

RNM GS3

If they were smart - they would have pulled out decades ago and saved their shareholders BILLIONS of Dollars. I never said they will leave but that it would be the smart choice for them to do it. Corporate Ego gets in the way of many wise decisions usually.

It will be a interesting to see who is left standing by 2035 in US market.

mmarshall

VW also loses money because of the relative unreliability and high defect-rates in their vehicles. That creates more warranty-work than is necessary (or should be necessary)

Also, consider that a number of people by VW products simply because of their relatively simple interiors and no-nonsense control layouts. Many people don't like to fool with overly-complex controls and unnecessary menu-navigating.

Toys4RJill

VW of America runs all of those groups. I am a bit surprised that their VW brand sales are what they are. I thought they would be much higher.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ah, got it now!

yes, vw is determined to become a bigger player in the u.s. given that they own electrify america and have BIG EV plans, and the recent ute successes, i'd say they're on their way, and the past challenges and losses will be just that, in the past.